New (as of 2019) airport CT scanners

pentaxuser · Dec 18, 2020

As I said before, I believe it will take legislation in the U.K. to force airport security staff to comply with a request for hand inspection and such legislation is way down the government's list of "to do" subjects

I do not see enough evidence of a big enough push on the part of any of the "big" names among the film companies to make this happen. Frankly in global terms based on the travelling public's use of film, we do not have the clout to make it happen and in such terms we are never likely to have the clout to change things, irrespective of the revival in film sales.

pentaxuser

Arcadia4 · Dec 19, 2020

Update on roll out of ct scanners here. To be mandatory in uk for cabin baggage.https://www.securityinformed.com/in...anning-improves-co-2164-ga-sb.1574953024.html
https://www.securityinformed.com/in...anning-improves-co-2164-ga-sb.1574953024.html

None of the security industry articles i’ve found mention film, this is only covered in photographic press and forums probably because of the focus of selling product and hence not wishing to state any downsides. Ilford was said to be working with dft and heathrow airport on the issue in jan but nothing more has been said since. The only solution seems to be hand inspection but that would require airport security to be aware and if you make a fuss when they refuse you will probably seen as a potential ‘threat’

AgX · Dec 19, 2020

Arcadia4 said:
None of the security industry articles i’ve found mention film, this is only covered in photographic press and forums probably because of the focus of selling product and hence not wishing to state any downsides.

As mentioned somewhere at the start of the thread I checked at the sites of several manufacturers of such new scanners and they did not mention film at all.

pentaxuser · Dec 19, 2020

Arcadia4 said:
Update on roll out of ct scanners here. To be mandatory in uk for cabin baggage.
https://www.securityinformed.com/in...anning-improves-co-2164-ga-sb.1574953024.html

’

Exactly. The new scanners are being promoted on the convenience and safety of passengers, not on their convenience or otherwise for film users Frankly we do not matter a bit in matters of scanners.

Until we see real evidence that the big film makers have made any headway it is time we accepted the stark reality of where we currently are

pentaxuser

BrianShaw · Dec 19, 2020

AgX said:
As mentioned somewhere at the start of the thread I checked at the sites of several manufacturers of such new scanners and they did not mention film at all.

... and they haven’t for more than a decade!

AgX · Dec 19, 2020

Well, I did not expect any of the engineers designing such machines even thinking of film.

pentaxuser · Dec 19, 2020

Based on the last two posts I will, as they say in a court of law in the U. K., rest my case

pentaxuser

Agulliver · Dec 20, 2020

skysh4rk said:
I’ve never otherwise had a problem with x-ray damage, but have flown through Schipol in Amsterdam twice since they installed the new scanners and negatives were fogged each time (lab commented on this, so not my imagination). Film was 160 and 400 ISO. Security would not even entertain possibility of hand check.

How bad was the fogging, can you post some examples?

No European country has ever had any laws giving people the right to hand inspections. It's mostly an American thing. Ergo many European and British security people are unfamiliar with this request and will react accordingly. They may even be trained to refuse, it's just never been a thing here. Unfortunately we film users are now a very small percentage of the people flying. Long gone are the days when every family heading for the sun had their annual two rolls of Kodak Gold on them. The new scanners will benefit the vast majority of those who fly for both business and pleasure.....the people who are currently pissed off that they have to remove their laptops and put their liquids in a 1 litre baggy. I've never understood why that's such a hassle but the average human seems to find it so. And such people make 95% of those using commercial airports...families with kids who always seem to have half a dozen banned water bottles and their tablets stuffed deep inside their cabin bags.

Sooner or later I'll be able to travel places again and I usually take my cabin bag basically full of cameras and film.

mooseontheloose · Dec 26, 2020

Renato Tonelli said:
1. Is there a list of airports that have the new scanners?
2. Does JFK allow hand inspections?

Entering high anxiety mode here

1. Yes - here's one list.
2. I imagine yes, as this is allowed at US airports, which unfortunately is not so common elsewhere.

Renato Tonelli · Dec 26, 2020

mooseontheloose said:
1. Yes - here's one list.
2. I imagine yes, as this is allowed at US airports, which unfortunately is not so common elsewhere.

Thank you.
I think I will need to fly direct to Italy (usually more costly and more involved when it comes to getting to my final destination for me); develop all of my exposed film there, so no issues on the return trip.

Arthurwg · Dec 26, 2020

I'm planning to buy and process my film in-country. Trick will be to find pro-quality labs. Easy in France but perhaps difficult elsewhere.

Renato Tonelli · Dec 26, 2020

Arthurwg said:
I'm planning to buy and process my film in-country. Trick will be to find pro-quality labs. Easy in France but perhaps difficult elsewhere.

Turn-around time could also be an issue; I suppose that you could opt to have the developed negatives shipped back to you.

Ste_S · Dec 28, 2020

skysh4rk said:
I’ve never otherwise had a problem with x-ray damage, but have flown through Schipol in Amsterdam twice since they installed the new scanners and negatives were fogged each time (lab commented on this, so not my imagination). Film was 160 and 400 ISO. Security would not even entertain possibility of hand check.

I went a bought a Fuji X100 series camera, purely as I travel to Amsterdam a fair bit (love that city) and Schipol have the new scanners. Haven't been since Covid, but glad I picked up the Fuji based on the above.

mooseontheloose · Jan 1, 2021

Arthurwg said:
I'm planning to buy and process my film in-country. Trick will be to find pro-quality labs. Easy in France but perhaps difficult elsewhere.

This is going to be my new procedure when travelling, even though the cost of film and developing (especially in Europe) can be a bit more expensive that what I'm used to. However, I'm still unsure about what to do when going to more off-the-beaten track countries in the Middle East and Africa - I think most of them will still be using old x-ray scanners which is not a problem, but I'll probably have to connect through major airports which would be a problem. Like @Ste_S, I have a Fuji X100 series camera that will probably see more use as a backup camera, but I'd still like to find a way to mostly shoot film if I can.

Ai Print · Apr 14, 2021

I have a three week trip to the Faroe Islands this Fall I am currently planning on, strictly for producing new work. By the looks of it, Copenhagen Airport now has the CT scanners in use and I don't expect them to be amenable to hand checking over 100 rolls of 120 film. I was going to ship 100 rolls ahead and then carry 100 as a means to stack the deck in my favor in regards to using good film but after reading every post on this thread, I think I am SOL on safety bringing film on my person.

I am wondering if I should not run a test of a few rolls right now. Make images on them stateside, ship it to the hotel contact and then have them ship it back a few days later and I run the film when it returns to me to see how it looks. I could run a control roll from the same batch and keep it to compare to when I run the globetrotting stuff.

I need at least 160 rolls for this work, was hoping to have 200 to work with using the split pathway method but I need to see how it goes shipped back and forth. If it comes out ok using the shipping method, I might be ok. If not, I might have to cancel the trip as digital is just not what I want to be using for this body of work if I can at all help it.

NB23 · Apr 14, 2021

Ai Print said:
I have a three week trip to the Faroe Islands this Fall I am currently planning on, strictly for producing new work. By the looks of it, Copenhagen Airport now has the CT scanners in use and I don't expect them to be amenable to hand checking over 100 rolls of 120 film. I was going to ship 100 rolls ahead and then carry 100 as a means to stack the deck in my favor in regards to using good film but after reading every post on this thread, I think I am SOL on safety bringing film on my person.

I am wondering if I should not run a test of a few rolls right now. Make images on them stateside, ship it to the hotel contact and then have them ship it back a few days later and I run the film when it returns to me to see how it looks. I could run a control roll from the same batch and keep it to compare to when I run the globetrotting stuff.

I need at least 160 rolls for this work, was hoping to have 200 to work with using the split pathway method but I need to see how it goes shipped back and forth. If it comes out ok using the shipping method, I might be ok. If not, I might have to cancel the trip as digital is just not what I want to be using for this body of work if I can at all help it.

Low ISO will help. If I was you, I’d go with pan-F @ ISO 20.

wiltw · Apr 14, 2021

NB23 said:
Low ISO will help. If I was you, I’d go with pan-F @ ISO 20.

Not if it is one of the newest CT scanners used at Security for carry-on baggage!

film_man · Apr 14, 2021

This is so sad. So now we'd have to either arrange delivery of the film to the hotel, send it in advance ourselves or buy it locally (which is impractical for a weekend trip spending half a day looking for 4 rolls of film). Plus makes it impossible to have film loaded on the camera until you get past security. And then you have to send the film back, ie find a post office or whatever. I suppose I should start saving for that M10...

AgX · Apr 14, 2021

And in case scanning is done only at samples of parcels, a outcome without image damage at your test-run will tell you nothing.

Don_ih · Apr 14, 2021

Ai Print said:
I have a three week trip to the Faroe Islands this Fall I am currently planning on, strictly for producing new work. By the looks of it, Copenhagen Airport now has the CT scanners in use and I don't expect them to be amenable to hand checking over 100 rolls of 120 film. I was going to ship 100 rolls ahead and then carry 100 as a means to stack the deck in my favor in regards to using good film but after reading every post on this thread, I think I am SOL on safety bringing film on my person.

I am wondering if I should not run a test of a few rolls right now. Make images on them stateside, ship it to the hotel contact and then have them ship it back a few days later and I run the film when it returns to me to see how it looks. I could run a control roll from the same batch and keep it to compare to when I run the globetrotting stuff.

I need at least 160 rolls for this work, was hoping to have 200 to work with using the split pathway method but I need to see how it goes shipped back and forth. If it comes out ok using the shipping method, I might be ok. If not, I might have to cancel the trip as digital is just not what I want to be using for this body of work if I can at all help it.

Ship all your film in lead bags and do all your development there (if possible) - otherwise, ship it back. Clearly label the outside of the box saying "lead-shielded photographic material. Do not x-ray." If it gets opened by customs, they'll likely look through the contents, reseal the bag, reseal the box, and everything will be fine.

AgX · Apr 14, 2021

Don Heisz said:
. Clearly label the outside of the box saying "lead-shielded photographic material. Do not x-ray." If it gets opened by customs, they'll likely look through the contents, reseal the bag, reseal the box, and everything will be fine.

If life would be that easy, I would become a smuggler.

Don_ih · Apr 14, 2021

AgX said:
If life would be that easy, I would become a smuggler.

If you pack heroin in the lead-lined bag, it likely won't make it past a hand-check.

AgX · Apr 14, 2021

Thus how do customs officers get to know that your film rolls contain film and not heroin? Likely not by just you telling them so.

koraks · Apr 14, 2021

Don Heisz said:
Ship all your film in lead bags

Won't work. In freight handling, xray doses are used that will fog film even if it were packed in 3 lead bags. In carry on checks, contemporary CT scanners will also scan right through a lead bag. The whole "lead bags are the solution to xray problems" is outdated and mostly relies on misconceptions.

pentaxuser · Apr 14, 2021

It would sound reasonable to say that sales of film will drop to at least the extent of travel anywhere outside of the U.S.,wouldn't it? Perhaps a pity that 90% of film sales wasn't made to satisfy the overseas tourist market then I would certainly predict some action by the film companies

pentaxuser

New (as of 2019) airport CT scanners

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