New: ADOX SCALA BW reversal kit

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Lachlan Young

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I infer also that the FD doesn't contain any silver halide solvent and this can explain the fact that it's been reused as SD.
I'd agree - and the fact it will work with CMS 20 (which apparently seems to be sensitive to silver solvents) would further strengthen that hypothesis. On the other hand it doesn't preclude the use of a development accelerator, which at the quantity likely used wouldn't have to go on the MSDS & would likely have no negative impact on the reuse of the developer.
 
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I infer also that the FD doesn't contain any silver halide solvent and this can explain the fact that it's been reused as SD.

This is probably true. The fact that Scala 160 is to be processed at 24C unlike Scala 50 also hints at the absence of halide solvent in the first developer. As the Scala films are designed specifically for reversal processing, maybe they don't need halide solvent in the first developer.
 
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the fact it will work with CMS 20

Interestingly, the data sheet made available on FotoImpex's website makes no mention of CMS 20. :smile: It gives processing instructions for Scala 50 and Scala 160 only. If you wish to reversal process CMS 20 with the kit, you're on your own, as of now. Let's hope Adox will make the processing instructions for CMS 20 available soon.
 

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Interestingly, the data sheet made available on FotoImpex's website makes no mention of CMS 20. :smile: It gives processing instructions for Scala 50 and Scala 160 only. If you wish to reversal process CMS 20 with the kit, you're on your own, as of now. Let's hope Adox will make the processing instructions for CMS 20 available soon.

I'll refer you to post #1 in this thread. It may be covered in a future revision - or Adox feel that any potential users are smart enough to work it out for themselves.
 
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I'll refer you to post #1 in this thread. It may be covered in a future revision - or Adox feel that any potential users are smart enough to work it out for themselves.

I've seen Post #1 and hence was surprised by the omission of CMS 20 in the data sheet. As CMS 20 is Adox's own film and one that has been apparently tested in the new kit, it makes sense for Adox to give the processing instructions and not trust the smartness of its customers to work out the process for this film. Maybe they'll do that in a future revision as you said.
 

Lachlan Young

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I've seen Post #1 and hence was surprised by the omission of CMS 20 in the data sheet. As CMS 20 is Adox's own film and one that has been apparently tested in the new kit, it makes sense for Adox to give the processing instructions and not trust the smartness of its customers to work out the process for this film. Maybe they'll do that in a future revision as you said.

Something else to note: the first developer time is much longer than the patent disclosed Agfa process that has been discussed elsewhere. The Agfa FD seems to need 6 mins at 20oC, the Adox one (for what is, realistically speaking, a near identical film) needs 15 mins at 24oC.
 
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Something else to note: the first developer time is much longer than the patent disclosed Agfa process that has been discussed elsewhere. The Agfa FD seems to need 6 mins at 20oC, the Adox one (for what is, realistically speaking, a near identical film) needs 15 mins at 24oC.

That's a great observation! IIRC the first developer in the Agfa-Gaevert patent contained Metol along with Hydroquinone. Interestingly, MSDS of the new reversal kit mentions only Hydroquinone hinting at the presence of Phenidone.
 
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lantau

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Something else to note: the first developer time is much longer than the patent disclosed Agfa process that has been discussed elsewhere. The Agfa FD seems to need 6 mins at 20oC, the Adox one (for what is, realistically speaking, a near identical film) needs 15 mins at 24oC.

Photo Studio 13 writes the FD time on the envelope, in which you get th re film back. I can't remember the time for Scala 160, I'll have to check when I'm back home on Friday. I do remember the time for TMY 120. It's 9 minutes. I ask them to run it for 10, otherwise they come out too dark for my taste. It's the only film where I select my own time. I also use Scala 160 and Delta 100 (120).
 

DeletedAcct1

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Photo Studio 13 writes the FD time on the envelope, in which you get th re film back. I can't remember the time for Scala 160, I'll have to check when I'm back home on Friday. I do remember the time for TMY 120. It's 9 minutes. I ask them to run it for 10, otherwise they come out too dark for my taste. It's the only film where I select my own time. I also use Scala 160 and Delta 100 (120).
O great, you used Photostudio13.
What are your experiences with this lab?
How much does it cost for a roll to be developed and mounted?
The slides developed by Photostudio how relates to those self developed at home? Are any better?
 

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Photo Studio 13 writes the FD time on the envelope

Can't immediately lay my hands on a sleeve for Silvermax/ Scala 160, however can tell you that CMS 20 ii got 3 mins and Delta 400 got either 7:30 or 10 mins - the latter are much nicer I think - a good balance of density and visual tonality.

Photostudio13.
What are your experiences with this lab?
How much does it cost for a roll to be developed and mounted?

A few years ago, the prices quoted to me were:

135-36 EUR 8,31
135-36 with frames EUR 10,83
120 EUR 5,76
4x5’’ EUR 4,22
push/pull + 50 % extra charge

"with frames" = mounted
 

DeletedAcct1

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Can't immediately lay my hands on a sleeve for Silvermax/ Scala 160, however can tell you that CMS 20 ii got 3 mins and Delta 400 got either 7:30 or 10 mins - the latter are much nicer I think - a good balance of density and visual tonality.



A few years ago, the prices quoted to me were:

135-36 EUR 8,31
135-36 with frames EUR 10,83
120 EUR 5,76
4x5’’ EUR 4,22
push/pull + 50 % extra charge

"with frames" = mounted
That's cheap!
 

DeletedAcct1

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Main issue is dealing with the antiquated German banking system
If you take into account that Harman lab costs 20€ for a film to be developed and printed, 10€ for slides are cheap.
What do you mean by antiquated german banking system?
 

Lachlan Young

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What do you mean by antiquated german banking system?

Essentially a choice of direct bank transfer (that costs money if sending from outside Germany) or sending cash with order - Paypal, or payment by credit/ debit card online is all still a bit alien in a lot of Germany.
 

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Essentially a choice of direct bank transfer (that costs money if sending from outside Germany) or sending cash with order - Paypal, or payment by credit/ debit card online is all still a bit alien in a lot of Germany.

For international bank transfers I can highly recommend Transferwise, very cheap and efficient without the big banks' charges. I have used it for payments to Photosudio 13 and to Japan and USA.
 

lantau

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O great, you used Photostudio13.
What are your experiences with this lab?
How much does it cost for a roll to be developed and mounted?
The slides developed by Photostudio how relates to those self developed at home? Are any better?

I have never developed slides at home, so I can't tell you. Slide is the one thing that I never intended to do myself. I'd like to be reassured that everything was done perfectly in development and any flaws are due to exposure.

My experience with them is very good. My impression is that they are a traditional lab, which has been running the way it is running for decades. Henning Serger has been inside, I have only been at the front counter dropping off film when I was driving past Stuttgart on work trips. They are very close to the Autobahn. It looks pretty large from the outside. I can't imagine there ever having been a minilab machine in there.

I have been phoned by them two or three times when they wanted a clarification about my order. I think once I accidentally checked the box for having the slides mounted. I was very happy that they caught this. Also I phoned in when I was going to send sheet film for the first time. When I asked something more specific they put me through to the lab technician right away. As I was talking to him, the image in my mind was of an older Gentleman in a grey lab coat, running the operation like a clock work. :smile:

About the pricing, I had to phone in to request a pice list, they don't have it on their website. I took my first slides in 2016, the price list was from 2011. Late last year, or early this year, I received back developed film and the bill and realised that they raised prices. After eight years! So I called to ask them for a new price list... it is dated September 2019.

Generally, 135 film costs quite a bit more to develop than 120 film and their C41 service costs more than E6. The latter seems to be their main service with the highest volume. Scala is most expensive and run only once a week on Mondays. C41 and E6 are done daily, AFAIK, in the morning only. I'm not sure if that has always been the case, because it means that the mail of the day will probably not make it into the tanks until the next day. Maybe volume has gone down in recent years? I seem to remember in the beginning I once sent in films on a Tuesday and had them back on Thursday. But most of the time I'll have at least one b/w film for Scala in there and then it'll always wait until Monday, delivered on Tuesday. I have to send in by Thursday at the latest to make sure it gets into their inbox on Friday for Monday morning processing.

Their price list is exclusive of tax, as is customary for B2B services. They accept private customers without issue, though. Currently you have to add 16% tax, from 2021 on it will revert to the pre-covid rate of 19%:

Process E6
- rollfilm 120: €4.47/€8.67 (unmounted/mounted)
- 135 film: €5.49/€7.99
- 4x5 sheets: €2.92 each. You'll get incremental discount starting at 10% from 10 sheets, 15% from 25 sheets, 20% from 50 sheets and the max 25% from 100 sheets.
- 5x7 sheets: €3,97
- 8x10 sheets: €7,46
- 20cm x 25cm: €8,29

Scala development
- 120 rollfilm €6.05
- 135 film €8.73
- 4x5 sheets €4,44
- 8x10 sheets €13,32

Push processing is 50% extra. However, my request to develop Tmax 400 rollfilm for 10 minutes instead of 9 minutes has never incurred an extra cost.

Although it is no their price list, I'm not sure if they will mount slides. Maybe they do but they are not keen. I guess you'd have to find out.

Another thing is that from my anecdotal experience I would not use the postal service between Italy and Germany. Any parcel service might be okay.

Quality is fine & turnaround was ok. Main issue is dealing with the antiquated German banking system. Prices aren't that dissimilar to the bigger dip/dunk E-6/ C-41 labs here - as opposed to smaller throughput custom labs.

Essentially a choice of direct bank transfer (that costs money if sending from outside Germany) or sending cash with order - Paypal, or payment by credit/ debit card online is all still a bit alien in a lot of Germany.

It's not a bug, it's a feature! :smile: The (retail) banking system itself is not as antiquated as the one in the UK and, the worst, in the US. Young(er) Germans wouldn't recognise a cheque. Direct debits and direct transfers have been in use since the seventies, according to my mother. Most definitely since 1980. Cheques came later, apparently, and are long gone now. B2B still used cheques on a small scale for some transactions, but it might be gone now. Just like bills of exchange.

Your point is more likely that certain business don't to modern payment methods, like paypal, credit cards, etc. Most retail shops accept local debit cards, the major international cards (Master, Visa) are accepted more and more. Even at food discounters. That is because the EU finally stepped in to stop the credit card issuers price racket and capped certain fees. Prior to that credit cards were pretty much boycotted by many businesses. And the culture of small shops preferring you not to use your credit card is still deeply ingrained. At places like a bakery or a butchers shop you'll need cash, though.

PS13 is a pro lab. I believe traditionally their customers were companies and professional photographers. I noticed, because they told me when I first used them that they will send back the film along with an invoice. No prepayment necessary or possible. No credit check whatsoever. I guess there are very few scumbags among people who shoot slide film...

A money transfer is the way businesses pay their bills. It costs nothing to receive and for most people nothing to send. Retails banks in the US often want $20-$30 for a wire transfer. I costs very little when you use an alternative service or if you have money wired into your bank account from your account at an online (discount) stock broker. It is my experience while living in the UK and US; things become very expensive if you want anything but stuff for the masses. I think Adox products at Freestyle are an example

Using Transferwise should minimise your fees, and, yes, I think they still get a generous cut.
 

lantau

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I'm at home and had a look at the kit. Indeed the bleach and the clearing bath packages say that they are not hazardous. The bleach is KMnO4 based, IMHO. I can see the distinct violet colour when I move the bottle and a thin film of liquid is running down the inside wall.

The guide is in English, only. Fine with me, but some German customers will likely moan about it. The chemicals show a production date around July. That corresponds with the postings by Team Adox, that they have been waiting for the packaging. It seems this kit had to go out in style, rather than in a plastic bag.

I'll attach some pictures:

PB270226.JPG PB270232.JPG PB270234.JPG
 

Lachlan Young

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Scala is most expensive and run only once a week on Mondays.

Ah, that explains the turnaround time - it seemed like it was being run once a week, but I could never quite be sure.

PS13 is a pro lab. I believe traditionally their customers were companies and professional photographers. I noticed, because they told me when I first used them that they will send back the film along with an invoice. No prepayment necessary or possible. No credit check whatsoever. I guess there are very few scumbags among people who shoot slide film...

Most custom/ pro labs tended to operate like that - and it wasn't that long ago that some simply refused to entertain mail order - it was drop off/ pick up only.
 

DeletedAcct1

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A question for Team Adox: I've seen that Scala 50 film is out of stock both at the shop and at the warehouse. When it will be available again?
 
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Team ADOX

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Is there a chance to see Adox Scala film in 120 format at some point?

We are working very hard on our 120 film production capabilities. 120 film confectioning (converting) is a high-tech task with huge complexity if you want both very good quality and industrial scale volume. There are challenges on many different levels.

ADOX - Innovation in Analog Photography.
 
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Hi there!

@Team ADOX I read that the kit can develop only 8 rolls of 36 exp. Is this value fixed and the chemicals are dead after 8 rolls, or I could develop few more rolls extending some times for bleach or for first developer?
Thanks!

With the number of 8 films per kit we can guarantee even, constant and optimal results for all developed films from film number 1 to film number 8.

ADOX - Innovation in Analog Photography.
 
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Team ADOX

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A question for Team Adox: I've seen that Scala 50 film is out of stock both at the shop and at the warehouse. When it will be available again?

The next batch is in preparation for the next production run. If you need new film very quickly, you can also order and use ADOX HR-50. Because we have always and right from the start honestly explained that ADOX SCALA 50 and ADOX HR-50 are technically the same film (and have also identical price). From a marketing point of view HR-50 has the negative film market as its main target market, and SCALA 50 the reversal film market.

ADOX - Innovation in Analog Photography.
 
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