Mural printing

[DREW WILEY]

True focus and glassless carriers are antithesis, especially for 8x10. But murals are intended to be viewed from a distance anyway.

Even my Durst 184 vert/horiz has a long remote focus cable connected to a fine focus motor. Not all do; but it was a common option.

 

[Carnie Bob]

I’m curious what sort of easel you use with this set up?

I use a sheet of steel and put magnets (long narrow) to hold the paper in position) exactly as I did on horizontal mural walls.

 

[Mick Fagan]

I use a sheet of steel and put magnets (long narrow) to hold the paper in position) exactly as I did on horizontal mural walls.

For our mural enlargers, two DeVere 10"x10" horizontal units, we had a steel wall running at 90º to the enlarger. To hold the paper we used very strong round magnets that looked very much like squat coffee tamper thingys.

We used rectangular strip magnets to place out the edge of where the paper was to go at the top, then held the paper in place with the coffee tamper magnets. This paper placement always required two people working in total darkness as our biggest prints were 1.83m in height on the wall, by 6m in length.

For smaller prints up to 30x40" we usually used our single 5x7" DeVere vertical enlarger as this enlarger had quite a big baseboard. We had the biggest steel easel I've ever seen which I seem to remember being an LPL unit, this accommodated 30x40" paper. Someone found a piece of sheet steel and we tried that using strip magnets for placement and holding the paper. I don't think either method was much different as the outcome for both was good.

A phenolic board made into a vacuum base, would be my pick. Using strip magnets at the edges of the paper for placement, then vacuum for the exposure. But if you are enlarging B&W, then strips of black gaffer tape for positioning on two edges, is where you could start and see how it goes.

 

[MattKing]

If you intend to use magnets, be sure to get ones that have handles that make them easy to hold and grip.
Your fingernails will thank you

 

[DREW WILEY]

I use vac easels equipped with custom adjustable masking blades, which further hold the paper edges flat. But again, this is just up to 30X40 inch print size, not big wall projection murals.

 

[Lachlan Young]

All the high end horizontal enlargers on rails had a focus device that you could walk up to the wall and focus with a good loupe. I worked on Devere, Durst and HK. I preferred the Durst 2501.

Honestly, I think it was more so that the person in question didn't have to leave the enlarger position until everything was set up to their liking.

I might still have the remote control off the HK somewhere.

One other thing, the baseboard off a De Vere 480 copy camera is worth tracking down. It's got a steel plate hidden inside for easy use with magnets.

True focus and glassless carriers are antithesis, especially for 8x10.

How about just stating that you haven't seen these carriers?

If the film was to pop in them, it would need to tear.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Pop or not, you still get waviness and less than ideal focus. Combined with longer exposure times, film expands with heat,
especially acetate film.

The "glassless" concept also ignores that optimal optical printing often involved (and still potentially involves) supplementary masks which must be kept precisely pin registered in a tight sandwich. This all depends on the specific application of course. Some giant print outfits catered to low budget amateur and temporary advertising applications, while full-service labs offered higher quality options. Color mural printing without masking techniques available would have been disappointing.

 

[xkaes]

I use a Beseler Negaflat -- but they only made that for 4x5.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Lachlan - I'll admit that I haven't seen a glassless carrier in person for some time. I first handled one about 45 yrs ago, and really don't want to dig through all those boxes of enlarger odds n' ends up on my loft, that I no longer need, or leftover from some "been there, done that" experimental phase. I've machined all kinds of carriers of my own, if that was needed. A modernized version of the Carlwen fluid carrier system with registration pins might be a great idea, except that I'm too lazy to repeatedly clean the immersion oil off all the glass and film surfaces involved - that would be darkroom Purgatory.

For 35mm film, a "stretching" carrier could simply use 4 sprocket hole pins capable of each being tightened 45 deg outwardly. A fairly easy machine shop CAD project in this day and age.

I have a friend quite skilled at using his glassless carriers. But he only prints 35mm up to 645, and relatively small prints using a low-heat enlarger. When I operated a 2000W color mural enlarger, it ran so hot that the cooling fan required four pure silicone duct lines; and the fan alone drew more wattage than my entire house. Even all the light seals in that rig had to be made of pure silicone, aircraft grade. All that got replaced by a cooler system, thank goodness.

 

[Dwayne Martin]

For our mural enlargers, two DeVere 10"x10" horizontal units, we had a steel wall running at 90º to the enlarger. To hold the paper we used very strong round magnets that looked very much like squat coffee tamper thingys.

We used rectangular strip magnets to place out the edge of where the paper was to go at the top, then held the paper in place with the coffee tamper magnets. This paper placement always required two people working in total darkness as our biggest prints were 1.83m in height on the wall, by 6m in length.

For smaller prints up to 30x40" we usually used our single 5x7" DeVere vertical enlarger as this enlarger had quite a big baseboard. We had the biggest steel easel I've ever seen which I seem to remember being an LPL unit, this accommodated 30x40" paper. Someone found a piece of sheet steel and we tried that using strip magnets for placement and holding the paper. I don't think either method was much different as the outcome for both was good.

A phenolic board made into a vacuum base, would be my pick. Using strip magnets at the edges of the paper for placement, then vacuum for the exposure. But if you are enlarging B&W, then strips of black gaffer tape for positioning on two edges, is where you could start and see how it goes.

I started out with a magnet system, it was a half sheet of plywood cut in half with a piano hinge in the middle for storage. Then I glued sheet metal to that. I worked fine but it was awkward for me to deal with alone so I decided to build a giant 2 blade easel. It will accommodate a 50” x 30” sheet of paper, and it gives you a full 48'' of exposed area. That size print is a bit beyond my available darkroom space but it’s doable. I wash outside after I roll the prints in the chemistry. I tone outside also. I made it with an extrusion made for specialty table saw fences and other parts and pieces meant for the same thing. It's got 1/4'' brass angle imbedded in the wood under the extrusions to line the paper up nice. It gets me a nice clean border which I like. Once I get it set up exactly like I want I tape the easel blades so it can't move when I open and close it. Took me a minute to put together all the right parts and pieces but it was worth doing..

 

[Lachlan Young]

For 35mm film, a "stretching" carrier could simply use 4 sprocket hole pins capable of each being tightened 45 deg outwardly. A fairly easy machine shop CAD project in this day and age.

I have a friend quite skilled at using his glassless carriers. But he only prints 35mm up to 645, and relatively small prints using a low-heat enlarger. When I operated a 2000W color mural enlarger, it ran so hot that the cooling fan required four pure silicone duct lines; and the fan alone drew more wattage than my entire house. Even all the light seals in that rig had to be made of pure silicone, aircraft grade. All that got replaced by a cooler system, thank goodness.

These carriers were off an HK that was running a 4kw head. They were an (expensive) optional extra over the regular glass & registration carriers. They grab hold of the film very positively (as in you would give yourself a blood blister if you trapped skin in the clamps on the rollfilm carriers when they snap shut) and then pull it to tension (as in you can tap on the film and hear it) without damaging the film. They are a very different level from what you describe.

The "glassless" concept also ignores that optimal optical printing often involved (and still potentially involves) supplementary masks which must be kept precisely pin registered in a tight sandwich.

And the HK glass (and register glass) carriers are designed to lock shut once loaded, more in the manner of things like the register carrier that Condit made.

 

[DREW WILEY]

I have both early style Condit punches and frames, plus some of the significantly better last versions from them. But in terms of carriers, I've adapted both registration Durst carriers to the same punch patterns, as well as custom carriers and vac registration easels of my own
making. My larger punch and register equip was made by Ternes Burton.

I don't recall ever seeing HK carriers as you describe them. I'll try hunting down an illustration or picture, unless you have one handy. I'm always interested in such innovations, mainly just out of curiosity. I already have pretty much everything I personally need.