Mixing Chemicals & Developing First Roll of B&W

MattKing · Oct 17, 2020

Mix up the full size of the bottle - it will double the capacity, and cut down on oxidation.
You can then use both tanks you got from me at the same time!

Bikerider · Oct 17, 2020

I have not seen any reference to how long or how many times you can use the fixer. The standard test I have stuck with for over60 years is:- Drop a small piece of film (undeveloped) into a new fixer bath at 20c/68f and see how long it takes to clear the emulsion. After say around 5-8 films have been through the half litre of fixer check it again with film. The fixer is about exhausted when the clearing time is twice that you noted when it was first tested. Even when the clearing time is noted, the complete fixing time should be TWICE that recorded time. The times given on the bottles of fixing concentrate are for new fixer not a general fixing time after it has been used.

Be aware though that some films such as Kodak T Max and possibly Ilford Delta, take a lot longer than other films such as FP4+ so it is advisable to use the same brand/name of film in both tests.

Donald Qualls · Oct 17, 2020

A half liter of fixer is good for about 8-16 rolls of film, generally, but fixer doesn't like oxygen, so if you have a liter size bottle, you're ahead to mix a full bottle instead of half. In my experience, mixed fixer in a reasonably full bottle is more likely to be used up than fail due to age, even if you're only processing a couple rolls a month.

Sirius Glass · Oct 17, 2020

braxus said:
If I mix up only a 500ml amount of fixer, use and pour back into a 1L bottle for reuse later, will it go bad quickly if half the bottle is full of air? Or should I just mix up 1L and only use the portion I need, then pour it all back in there?

I use 500 ml at a time and put it back into the 1 liter bottle.

BrianShaw · Oct 17, 2020

I use each chemical one-shot. Actual volume depending on which tank or how much film. Not the most economical but never a worry about potency.

MattKing · Oct 17, 2020

Bikerider said:
I have not seen any reference to how long or how many times you can use the fixer.

The manufacturer's datasheets usually give capacity recommendations:
Ilford Rapid Fixer - 24 rolls per litre of working strength mixed at 1 + 4 (see page 2): https://www.ilfordphoto.com/amfile/file/download/file/1833/product/711/
Kodak Rapid Fixer - 32 rolls per litre of working strength mixed at 1 + 3: https://imaging.kodakalaris.com/sites/uat/files/wysiwyg/pro/chemistry/E103CF_0.pdf

Sirius Glass · Oct 17, 2020

BrianShaw said:
I use each chemical one-shot. Actual volume depending on which tank or how much film. Not the most economical but never a worry about potency.

If potency is a problem, you should see your urologist.

Donald Qualls · Oct 17, 2020

Sirius Glass said:
If potency is a problem, you should see your urologist.

There you go bringing digital into the discussion...

BrianShaw · Oct 17, 2020

Sirius Glass said:
If potency is a problem, you should see your urologist.

That’s a stupid thing that only an immature a-hole would make in this context. Or is this projection of a personal problem of your own? Pun intended.

Sirius Glass · Oct 17, 2020

BrianShaw said:
That’s a stupid thing that only an immature a-hole would make in this context. Or is this projection of a personal problem of your own? Pun intended.

Oh my I must have hit a sore spot.

braxus · Oct 17, 2020

Come now guys. Behave. Dont want this thread turning into a pissing contest.

pentaxuser · Oct 17, 2020

When you get a chance to develop your film, Braxus, let us know how it goes

pentaxuser

Donald Qualls · Oct 17, 2020

MattKing said:
The manufacturer's datasheets usually give capacity recommendations:
Ilford Rapid Fixer - 24 rolls per litre of working strength mixed at 1 + 4 (see page 2): https://www.ilfordphoto.com/amfile/file/download/file/1833/product/711/
Kodak Rapid Fixer - 32 rolls per litre of working strength mixed at 1 + 3: https://imaging.kodakalaris.com/sites/uat/files/wysiwyg/pro/chemistry/E103CF_0.pdf

Worth noting that this appears to be the same capacity per unit of concentrate so we can probably take it as gospel, given Kodak and Ilford agree. I can also attest that Kodak's concentrate, at least, is still good after years in the bottle in poor storage conditions. Clearing time with working solution, for conventional grain film, even after having fixed a couple dozen rolls, is measured in seconds, not minutes.

braxus · Oct 17, 2020

So maybe I should get the Kodak fixer instead of the Ilford?

I plan to be developing by early next month if all goes well.

RalphLambrecht · Oct 17, 2020

braxus said:
After watching some videos and looking online for research, I think I have an idea of how to do this (from a 27 year absence of doing it).

Chemicals Im picking up to start (with more down the road) are:
2 packets of Xtol 5L mix, 1 bottle of Ilfostop, 1 bottle of Ilfo Rapid Fix, and Kodak FotoFlo to end.

Mix the Xtol in a large container like a 2 gallon bucket (which I have at the moment). Fill container up to 4L mark with water. Mix in part A of Xtol. Stir. Mix in part B Xtol. Stir. Fill container to 5L mark with more water. Stir. Put chemicals into air tight containers for future use.

Im not sure what amount of Ilfo Stop I need. Need help here. No videos on this.

For the fixer, put in 100ml of Ilfo Rapid Fix and 400ml of water for 500ml of solution. Stir. Im told fixer can be reused. How many times can it be reused? Put used fixer into 1L container for future use.

Fotoflo only need a few drops while rinsing.

Now on to developing. Fill container with Xtol to amount needed. Check temperature. Fill another container with mixed stop. Fill another container with mixed Fixer.

Put films into light tight bag and load reels. Put into Paterson tank.
Start of developing, fill Paterson tank with room temperature water for pre rinse. Rinse for 2 minutes. Dump.
Pour in pre-measured Xtol developer. Start timer. Invert and rotate tank 5 seconds on every 30 second mark. Dump developer at end of time.
Pour in measured stop. I have no idea how long this needs to be in the tank. Ideas? Dump.
Pour in measured Fixer. Fix for 5 minutes. Does the tank need to be inverted as like developing? How often? Dump used fixer into 1L container for future re-use.
Remove lid and top from Paterson tank. Rinse with a couple drops of Fotoflo. Rinse for how long?
Let film hang and dry overnight in bathtub area.

So does this all seem correct? What changes are needed?

follo the instructions for the Ilfostop dilution; alternatively use a 2%citric acid or vinegar solution. a 1-minute stop bath is sufficient.

RalphLambrecht · Oct 17, 2020

braxus said:
So maybe I should get the Kodak fixer instead of the Ilford?

I plan to be developing by early next month if all goes well.

makes no difference; either fixer is fine.

PhotoJim · Oct 17, 2020

braxus said:
So maybe I should get the Kodak fixer instead of the Ilford?

They're functionally interchangeable. Buy whatever is more readily available and/or less expensive.

MattKing · Oct 18, 2020

The Kodak Rapid Fixer comes with a little bottle of hardener - which is quite acidic, and is the reason you can't ship it by air. You don't have to add it (unless you want to) and I don't. I use the hardener with some print toning processes.
Ilford Rapid Fix doesn't come with or include hardener.
If you like Efke films, they (or at least some of them) benefit from hardener. Most modern films don't require it.

Donald Qualls · Oct 18, 2020

braxus said:
So maybe I should get the Kodak fixer instead of the Ilford?

I plan to be developing by early next month if all goes well.

Since either fixer will work at either dilution, and capacity per liter of working solution is determined by the dilution, it literally makes no difference. Except! As noted in another reply, Kodak Rapid Fixer includes a small bottle of hardener (which is a sulfuric acid solution, I'd have to go look at what else). As noted, this adds both cost and time to shipping, so be sure to compare cost+shipping in making your decision.

I have the Kodak product in my darkroom, because I got it from someone else close to fifteen years ago (and the concentrate keeps almost forever); I've got another unopened bottle of concentrate in the shed. If you have a local shop (Vancouver?), you'll find little to choose between them, especially if you don't have a long standing habit of using the hardening version. If you're buying from the Internet, like most of us, the extra time and cost to ship the hazmat Kodak version may matter -- or, in Canada, it might not, they might both be hazmat there.

braxus · Oct 24, 2020

While I was at Kerrisdale Cameras getting some camera gear from a credit I had with them for older gear, I picked up some Ilfostop and Ilford Rapid Fix. All I need now is the developer (Xtol) and some Photoflo. Im placing my order at months end.

Craig · Oct 25, 2020

What I do for the Xtol is mix the 5 litre solution and then I put it into a wine bag designed for home brewing. These are plastic bags that have a small tap on them, and more importantly you can fill it completely to exclude the air, and then as you use the solution the bag collapses and keep the chemicals air free. The tap makes it easy to dispense however much you need.

I use Xtol replenished. To do that, I save the used Xtol in a separate container and when I am developing film I use 75ml of new solution per roll of film and then fill the rest of the volume needed for the tank with old solution. After developing the used solution is reclaimed and repeat the process. Xtol is it's own replenisher, so you can continue the process almost indefinately.

braxus · Oct 26, 2020

I already have some 5L wine bags ready to use. I don't need much else to get me going. Some Xtol, a small measuring cylinder, a 1L container, and some Photoflo. Anything else I'll order at a later date.

Craig · Oct 26, 2020

Do you have a good thermometer? I have a lab grade spirit thermometer.

Never hurts to have a few small buckets on hand, I use 4L ice cream pails. I usually fill it with water at my process temperature and use it for the wash water, and sometimes for a stop bath. I also use the buckets as water baths if I need to heat a chemical. I fill the bucket with hot water and then put my chemical in a 1L Erlenmeyer flask and put that in the bucket.

I found a science supply store here in Calgary and bought a bunch of lab grade glassware and it makes the mixing and measuring quite easy. The glassware was surprisingly cheap.

MattKing · Oct 26, 2020

braxus has at least one thermometer - a Kodak tank and tray thermometer, still in the box with instructions, and with a price tag that indicates it is probably from the 1970s!
I just had to include it with the Paterson tanks he got from me

Craig · Oct 26, 2020

Probably a decent one, the Kodak developing stuff was good.

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