Medium format technical / view camera

ags2mikon · Dec 19, 2024

The 65mm and 75mm lenses were on flat boards for the entire 900 series of cameras. When the vh series came out the lenses were re-mounted into recessed boards because the vh series bodies are thicker to accommodate the revolving back. You can still use the 65 and 75 on the vh series but it's partially off the focus rails and very limited lens rise. When you use the new recessed board lenses on the 900 series it is even better. Of course the infinity lens stops have to be adjusted accordingly. The rangefinder cams work the same. Recessed boards by themselves are like looking for hens teeth.

Chuck1 · Dec 19, 2024

I have a 65mm super on a very slightly recessed gray board (probably intended for a 970) the recessed boards for a vh seem to have a deeper recessed.
I never realized the cable release sleeve had threads (doh)

pkr1979 · Dec 19, 2024

Chuck1 said:
I have a 65mm super on a very slightly recessed gray board (probably intended for a 970) the recessed boards for a vh seem to have a deeper recessed.
I never realized the cable release sleeve had threads (doh)

Is the 65mm limited in ways longer lenses are not?

Chuck1 · Dec 19, 2024

For me the 65 is a bit of a pain in the ...
As the lensboard is not deep enough for a vh so it hangs off the back of the rails.

pkr1979 · Dec 19, 2024

So if it had been deeper it could have worked? Or is it just easier to use a 75mm?

Chuck1 · Dec 19, 2024

Can say for sure, i don't have a 75mm

ags2mikon · Dec 19, 2024

The newer 65mm and 75mm is in a deeper lens board and is painted in black. It sits further forward to clear the vh and vh-r camera.

pkr1979 · Dec 19, 2024

ags2mikon said:
The newer 65mm and 75mm is in a deeper lens board and is painted in black. It sits further forward to clear the vh and vh-r camera.

So if it is a black painted 65mm it should be good? Is there anything I should look after to make sure its the newest one?

abruzzi · Dec 19, 2024

ags2mikon said:
But you don't need it. The socket is threaded in the bottom. It is nice to have though because it is faster to change lenses. I have attached pictures of 2 of my lenses, one is from the 900 series and the other is from the ER series. Both have a thread for standard cable releases, that is what is in the pictures.

I don't think thats the case for all the lens board Horseman made. I tried that on several of my lenses and none of them worked, so I went back to using the Horseman cable release on my VH-R and the end adapter on the cable release in the bag with my VH.

abruzzi · Dec 19, 2024

pkr1979 said:
Ive been reading abit more on using wide angle lenses with this camera. If using a 65mm is then a recessed lensboard necessary due to the bed? If a recessed lensboard is necessary will that cause any other limitations?

If you are using the rangefinder, read the manual for the VH-R and you'll see on page 11 that some lenses share the same infinity stop. Yhe 180mm telephoto uses the same infinity as the 120mm non telephoto, the 90/5.6 uses the same stop as the 105/3.5, and the 65/7 and the 75/5.6 share the same infinity stop:

You can mount any lens to a horseman board and adjust the infinity stops to match the lenses you choose, but if you want it to work as in the manual, you need the 65 and 75 to be in the same type of lens board--if the 65 is grey, you want the 75 in a grey board. If the 65 is in a black board you need a 75 in a black baord. This is because the about of recess in each board is done to match infinity for both. (I think the other matched lenses like 120/180 and 90/105 are on flat boards so they don't have the same issue.)

ic-racer · Dec 19, 2024

ags2mikon said:
But you don't need it. The socket is threaded in the bottom. It is nice to have though because it is faster to change lenses. I have attached pictures of 2 of my lenses, one is from the 900 series and the other is from the ER series. Both have a thread for standard cable releases, that is what is in the pictures.

All true and a very good point!

However, they left that feature off the wrinkle finish on-ER lensboards.

ic-racer · Dec 19, 2024

abruzzi said:
If you are using the rangefinder, read the manual for the VH-R and you'll see on page 11 that some lenses share the same infinity stop. Yhe 180mm telephoto uses the same infinity as the 120mm non telephoto, the 90/5.6 uses the same stop as the 105/3.5, and the 65/7 and the 75/5.6 share the same infinity stop:

View attachment 385784

You can mount any lens to a horseman board and adjust the infinity stops to match the lenses you choose, but if you want it to work as in the manual, you need the 65 and 75 to be in the same type of lens board--if the 65 is grey, you want the 75 in a grey board. If the 65 is in a black board you need a 75 in a black baord. This is because the about of recess in each board is done to match infinity for both. (I think the other matched lenses like 120/180 and 90/105 are on flat boards so they don't have the same issue.)

Good explaination. Also, the shutters between the two are different with different mounting threads, so the lens elements are not swappable between the two styles.

Topcor/Horseman 75mm Lensboard Swap...

This started as a 75mm Topcor/Horseman Lensboard swap. As Horseman 6x9cm owners know, they upgraded the lens line at one point by making some of the lensboards recessed. This, of course, affects where the infinity stops need to be to focus with the rangefinder. The change in lensboards is...

www.photrio.com

ags2mikon · Dec 19, 2024

This is how I first did a work around before I found real horseman cables. I started with a Hasselblad angle adapter because I had one and pushed a short piece of 1/4" air brake tubing on the Hasselblad adapter, it pushes firmly and then any cable release now works. I used the Hasselblad adapter because it has a straight shank. You can get air brake tubing at most real parts stores or a truck repair shop. It is real cheap so most places will give you a foot for free. They even have it in different colors like red, yellow and black.

ags2mikon · Dec 19, 2024

The other thing that they did was use brass shims to fine tune the shutters to the boards on the lenses that shared infinity stops. When these are set-up right the cameras are very nice hand held cameras. There is a learning curve to go through but I think that it is worth it.

pkr1979 · Dec 20, 2024

Im mainly interested in the VH without the rangefinder, so infinity stops arent really my concern - it was more about how well the 65/75mm works with movements with the VH, and how much of an issue the bed would be.

Besk · Dec 20, 2024

While I personally never got past the 985 series, I have a good friend (who owns a VH) who said that he was never able to keep the bed out of the field of view when the back was in the vertical position. I did not ask him if that could be eliminated by raising the front standard/lens but most likely it can.

edit: With the 6x7 back this problem with the bed in the field of view may be mitigated.

ags2mikon · Dec 20, 2024

The front movements are exactly the same on the VH and the VH-R. Same body same front standard. The VH-R has a viewfinder / rangefinder on the top and the VH has a trim panel on the top. Because of the revolving back on the VH and VH-R when you revolve to vertical the bed intrudes into the image. Horseman even thought of that too, there are 2 red dots on the front standard that you align raising the front standard slightly. I just turn the camera like a 985. You can't close the camera until you drop the lens again. When you use the 75mm this is not a problem. I personally think that the 985 with the late 65mm is the best combination for movements, because of the thinner body and the recessed boards.

I have used my VH-R with my 6x4.5 Mamiya RB67 film backs hand held by turning the viewfinder to vertical and the back to horizontal and using the 120mm frame lines with the 90mm lens. These cameras have a lot of capability. I was first introduced to them in 1983 by an acquaintance and bought my first one in 1984.

pkr1979 · Dec 20, 2024

ags2mikon said:
The front movements are exactly the same on the VH and the VH-R. Same body same front standard. The VH-R has a viewfinder / rangefinder on the top and the VH has a trim panel on the top. Because of the revolving back on the VH and VH-R when you revolve to vertical the bed intrudes into the image. Horseman even thought of that too, there are 2 red dots on the front standard that you align raising the front standard slightly. I just turn the camera like a 985. You can't close the camera until you drop the lens again. When you use the 75mm this is not a problem. I personally think that the 985 with the late 65mm is the best combination for movements, because of the thinner body and the recessed boards.

I have used my VH-R with my 6x4.5 Mamiya RB67 film backs hand held by turning the viewfinder to vertical and the back to horizontal and using the 120mm frame lines with the 90mm lens. These cameras have a lot of capability. I was first introduced to them in 1983 by an acquaintance and bought my first one in 1984.

Thanks. So if the 75mm isnt an issue, maybe a 65mm with a 6x7 back isnt an issue either? As mentione above her.

ags2mikon · Dec 20, 2024

I just turn mine on its side when using the 65mm. It has a tripod socket so it is easy to do. Then I have both rise and fall for the front standard. That is part of using a technical camera, finding the work around's for it's limitations.

Besk · Dec 20, 2024

As an aside, the "arms" of the 980 block the shift with the 75 and 65mm lenses. I have aftermarket, stainless steel arms which are like the arms of the 985 camera. Will sell them to 980 owners for $5.00 + cost of shipping. PM me.
Also have extra infinity stops.

ags2mikon · Dec 20, 2024

Bob, I just sent you a PM.

pkr1979 · Dec 20, 2024

Besk said:
As an aside, the "arms" of the 980 block the shift with the 75 and 65mm lenses. I have aftermarket, stainless steel arms which are like the arms of the 985 camera. Will sell them to 980 owners for $5.00 + cost of shipping. PM me.
Also have extra infinity stops.

Is this relevant for the VH?

pkr1979 · Dec 20, 2024

ags2mikon said:
I just turn mine on its side when using the 65mm. It has a tripod socket so it is easy to do. Then I have both rise and fall for the front standard. That is part of using a technical camera, finding the work around's for it's limitations.

Thanks man - I guess this solves quite a lot

ags2mikon · Dec 20, 2024

There is probably over 200 years or more of Horseman technical camera experience here on Photrio to draw from so avail yourself of the knowledge here and maybe save yourself some headaches.

Besk · Dec 20, 2024

pkr1979 said:
Is this relevant for the VH?

No. The arms for the 985 and all subsequent models look like elbows - they don't interfere with the shift feature.

Medium format technical / view camera

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