Magnesium view camera.

[GregY]

I have an old Kodak Master camera (8x10) and I am pretty sure it is both magnesium and aluminum. If I recall correctly, it weighs only 12 lbs. That sounds like a lot until you put it beside a Calumet. Check it out at

Large format cameras: Kodak Master View 8x10

If I were still shooting 8x10, i'd spring for the Chamonix Alpinist at 2460grams/ 5.4 lbs. I've used their 4x5 and 5x7 and find them well made and easy to use.

 

[eli griggs]

I have an old Kodak Master camera (8x10) and I am pretty sure it is both magnesium and aluminum. If I recall correctly, it weighs only 12 lbs. That sounds like a lot until you put it beside a Calumet. Check it out at

Large format cameras: Kodak Master View 8x10

Cheers!

 

[DREW WILEY]

It would be some kind of magnesium- aluminum alloy. Fabricating straight-out magnesium required advances well beyond that era, and innovations in suitable plating or coating too.

The trend toward lighter more portable 8X10's based on custom composite ply materials and aircraft aluminum hardware began with the Phillips folder. I have one of his very first 8X10's, serial no. 009 in fact! It's held up excellently with the exception of a few tightening threads and knobs, which I replaced with stainless steel. Today the closest thing would be the Chamonix folders. But there's a caveat to the Alpinist model because it does not have a reversible VH back.

 

[4season]

I note that the Intrepid 4x5 camera has the following specifications:

Weight 1.3 kg / 2.8 lbs
Price 388 USD

It incorporates not spongey metal (I'm not sure what advantage that would provide for structural components in a camera?), but rather, acrylic: Typical 3D printed parts are not solid plastic, but rather, a solid outer shell, and a hollow interior, crisscrossed with many thin strands of resin. These parameters are user-adjustable, and my norm is 20% infill.

As for tripod safety during lightning storms, my procedure is to pack up and seek shelter before the storm reaches my area! The fact that 100% wood trees with roots planted firmly in the soil are nevertheless struck by lightning, suggests to me that this is best.

 

[E76]

For a view camera the I would think the best material would be one with a high stiffness to density ratio. The high strength titanium alloys would certainly be a good choice. As would carbon fiber reinforced polymers.

But there is one material I have not seen mentioned yet, assuming cost is not a factor: beryllium (or its metal matrix composites like AlBeMet). This would be the ultimate lightweight camera: at 1.85 g/cm^2 but with 6 times the stiffness of steel the camera would weigh next to nothing but be incredibly rigid. Many optical systems and structures used in aerospace are made from this material.

 

[Joe Kashi]

There are many practical problems involved with making a consumer product out of Beryllium, including cost and the serious toxicity and pyrolytic nature of the metal during fabrication operations. It's not something that a small camera-making shop could do.

 

[Rrrgcy]

There are many practical problems involved with making a consumer product out of Beryllium, including cost and the serious toxicity and pyrolytic nature of the metal during fabrication operations. It's not something that a small camera-making shop could do.

I’ve got those Ping Beryllium golf clubs. Near pure Beryllium trades at about $1,092/kg these days and now falls in the class of precious metals. Ouch. BeCu (or CuBe) less so and I think most products w Be are made of this alloy (and having up to about only 3% of the good stuff), albeit same precautions in machining.

 

[Sharktooth]

How about the Toyo CF. It had a polycarbonate and carbon fibre composite body, and was lighter than the metal version. They were reasonably priced when they came out, and I seriously considered buying one, but never did.

I wonder how they've held up in the long term. There should be some users that can give us the scoop.

 

[Philippe-Georges]

I think the Modena made and very Italian designed Gibellini cameras might fulfil your wettest dreams...
But they are made of Aerospace titanium alloy and not of magnesium.

 

[Don_ih]

might fulfil your wettest dreams

Oh my!

 

[E76]

There are many practical problems involved with making a consumer product out of Beryllium, including cost and the serious toxicity and pyrolytic nature of the metal during fabrication operations. It's not something that a small camera-making shop could do.

Indeed. The only consumer products I am aware of using pure Beryllium are audiophile grade loudspeakers. They are very expensive!

 

[Chuck1]

How about the Toyo CF. It had a polycarbonate and carbon fibre composite body, and was lighter than the metal version. They were reasonably priced when they came out, and I seriously considered buying one, but never did.

I wonder how they've held up in the long term. There should be some users that can give us the scoop.

I bought a CF a couple of years ago and returned it promptly, it seemed flimsy but it was light. I have a 45aii and for the life of me can't find the 2 bricks hidden in there, but it is rock solid.

 

[Besk]

I believe the design of the camera is just as important as the weight of the materials used as far as rigidity vs weight is concerned.. Richard Ritter's cameras are a case-in-point.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Magnesium is fussy stuff and needs to be a special alloy with other materials to die cast well. That barrier was broken in the 80's. But what you almost entirely see today are lower quality softer aluminum-magnesium alloys which aren't very durable.
I don't think I'd want a camera made out of that, since there are better options.

I like the titanium hardware on my Ebony camera. But no way I'd be a sucker for such and such a marginally useful camera made of it. I'm an actual user, not someone looking for a conspicuous consumption fireplace mantle conversation piece next to the silver DeLorean parked on the rug.

My 8x10 is the original Phillips design (serial no. 009, in fact). He was the first to use custom plys, in this case, fiberglass bonded to veneers or expoxy-impregnated cherrywood. Now carbon fiber to wood plys have entered the scene and make lot of sense.
Durable, rigid, lightweight, and better thermal insulators than metal. And simply too light of a view camera is basically a kite in a breeze. You need some kind of sensible balance.

There have been aluminum monorail 4x5's clear down to 2-1/2 lbs, like Gowland and Toho. And some non-folding wooden models are nearly as light.

 

[Don_ih]

this expression or feeling might not exist in the Anglo-Saxon world

"your wildest dreams" is the standard expression in English. But "wettest" was pretty amusing. I applaud anyone's ability to speak a second (or third) language, since I cannot do it at all.

 

[Kino]

Magnesium alloys were used extensively in motion picture magazine manufacture, but they were (are) brittle and subject to breaking with just the right hit.

That, and the tendency to "bloom" with crystals if exposed to harsh weather or poor storage, tended to weld the screw-on lids shut to the point it takes a hammer and screwdriver to break the thread corrosion and open them.

I don't think the magnesium alloy is enough of a factor lighter than aircraft grade aluminum to make it worthwhile, as the castings have to be thicker to retain the strength of aluminum (at least in my experience).

 

[eli griggs]

Take a look at "sponge" metals, their light weights, and reportedly great strengths.

 

[Bill Burk]

No, the spikes would tend to ground the electrical charge. It might make all the difference between you being fried medium rare versus turned to charcoal. If I had to hunker down, I'd quickly look around for a low place where there weren't any burn marks on the trees, and then leave the metal tripod about 20 yards away. I'm obviously still alive; but there have sure been some close calls up on high passes or peaks. Those storms can move in mighty fast.

The stupidest one I ever heard about is when a Boy Scout troop leader had them erect a tall mess hall tent central support pole right below a set of high voltage power lines. A fatal mistake.

That tragedy was in part due to the camp being located on a military facility, where the civilian rules regarding ground clearance for high voltage lines was either “not applicable” or ignored. The lines were lower than they would normally be.

 

[Joe Kashi]

Magnesium is fussy stuff and needs to be a special alloy with other materials to die cast well. That barrier was broken in the 80's. But what you almost entirely see today are lower quality softer aluminum-magnesium alloys which aren't very durable.
I don't think I'd want a camera made out of that, since there are better options.

I like the titanium hardware on my Ebony camera. But no way I'd be a sucker for such and such a marginally useful camera made of it. I'm an actual user, not someone looking for a conspicuous consumption fireplace mantle conversation piece next to the silver DeLorean parked on the rug.

My 8x10 is the original Phillips design (serial no. 009, in fact). He was the first to use custom plys, in this case, fiberglass bonded to veneers or expoxy-impregnated cherrywood. Now carbon fiber to wood plys have entered the scene and make lot of sense.
Durable, rigid, lightweight, and better thermal insulators than metal. And simply too light of a view camera is basically a kite in a breeze. You need some kind of sensible balance.

There have been aluminum monorail 4x5's clear down to 2-1/2 lbs, like Gowland and Toho. And some non-folding wooden models are nearly as light.

The aluminum alternatives that Drew mentions make perfectly good sense and are relatively inexpensive.

I have both a Calumet-branded Gowland ( dark-drawer-ware as I find it too fiddly in terms of solidly locking the movements ) and a 2.5 pound Toho FC-45X which is slick, elegant and good enough for practically any likely situation.

Well, and there's the wooden Nagaoka 4x5 field camera, just a few ounces heavier than the Toho. In the field, I'd be happy with either the Nagaoka, which is a delight to use, or the Toho, which has more than adequate movements. In fact, the fellow from whom I purchased the Toho had been using it for many years for commercial table-top photography in his professional studio.

When using light cameras like the above, your lenses, film holders, and tripod will compromise the most of the bulk and weight of your outfit, rendering trivial the saving of a few ounces on the camera itself from using expensive exotic metals. (Beryllium is more expensive than pure silver.)

If you want to keep weight down, then look at small, light lenses like the Kodak Ektar 203/7,7 and maybe a Fujinon NW125/5.6, along with a light carbon fiber tripod.

 

[DREW WILEY]

eli - if you're referring to honeycomb metal, that is hell to work with. It's fine for aircraft paneling and so forth; but I can't imagine it being used for a camera. I once had a customer who used it for giant almost origami looking complex sculptures, which in turn had holographic coatings applied. Really stunning expensive work. But oh my, the specialized equipment and fuss involved! - I supplied all the gear itself (not the panels themselves). But doing a million dollar sculpture installation taking months or even years on end is in a quite different budget status than a practical camera design.

I'm in routine conversations with people in the Materials Science field here at the University, and parallel private industry. It's a hot field. But they're still exploring the benefits of real wood too, and new ways to work with that - Nature has already invented some remarkably sophisticated materials.

 

[Sean Mac]

Magnesium Aluminium alloys are really a conventional strategy where weight reduction is a significant consideration.

1950: The metal is magnesium, the car is the Beetle

The dream of an affordable and reliable car for ordinary people has been a driving force throughout automotive history. A fact that is not widely known is that magnesium from Norsk Hydro is one important ingredient in the Beetle.

www.hydro.com

They were fun cars to drive but lifting off the gas pedal in a fast bend would potentially see the car going backwards through the hedge.

 

[DREW WILEY]

The problem with aluminum alloys is that if you want them durable and machinable too, the components need to be die-cast under considerable pressure. Making the dies themselves in very expensive. Looks at what cameras like the Linhof Technika cost. Nowadays, its quite easy to CNC fabricate aluminum and then surface anodize it for hardness. But that layer of protection is pretty thin.

I certainly know what a VW Bug "Studentmobile" was. Easy to fix. I had the ignition running on a piece of baling wire and a paperclip! They were also great in the snow and sand if one couldn't afford 4WD. Mine had a roll top roof with dubious seals, and I once had the student stupidity to sit in it going through an automatic car wash.

 

[Arthurwg]

I have an old Kodak Master camera (8x10) and I am pretty sure it is both magnesium and aluminum. If I recall correctly, it weighs only 12 lbs. That sounds like a lot until you put it beside a Calumet. Check it out at

I believe that's the camera that Clyde Butcher used so successfully wading around in the Everglades.

 

[DREW WILEY]

Don't confuse aluminum-magnesium alloys with magnesium fabrication per se. And I already referred to die-casting, which makes the alloy much denser, hence distinctly heavier. In KMV mfg days, I doubt they could even fabricate straight magnesium to camera tolerances; it doesn't hold up well anyway.

 

[Bill Burk]

Get a converted Polaroid 110 a couple Grafmatic film holders and a lightweight tripod.
The entire setup fits a small daypack and weight about 9 pounds.

What you really want is to cut weight. That’s going to do it.