Let's Talk About Spending a Lot of Money on Lab Equipment with the Aim of Retiring in 25 Years.

[NortheastPhotographic]

We're looking at adding one of these next year: https://www.colenta.at/2025/wp-cont...-Datasheet-06-2022-20-BW-31-7Tank-ECO-V02.pdf

(Why do they make a model that does not have a stop bath tank? The dev times being so short, I think you'd want a true stop bath.)

Just curious about the Ilfotec RT developer requirement. We are doing everything now with replenished XTol (Actually Adox XT3) and a Jobo ATL2500. We use a water stop and Formulary TF5 fixer. I'm assuming it'll be less aesthetically pleasing than XTol, probably grainier? Is significantly worse? Similar to D76? I could live with that. Clayton F76+ was one that I decided was too harsh, and went back to XTol, for example. I've now come to see XTol as the developer on which all others should be evaluated. It's just so good. I've given up on the exotic formations in my personal work. I don't see any significant improvements over simple XTol. However, it just won't be possible to do RT with that so, Ilfotec RT it shall be.

We've had another big year at NP, with 30% sales growth over last year. I have about 25 years left of career time so I think next year will be a good time to solidify that future with a big, scary, investment in equipment. At one time I wanted to get the Colenta ROBOLINE dip and dunk model but I just don't think our space would allow for that sadly. Given that we currently run a 20" COLEX RT C41 machine, we're used to that process. It's actually kind of a conundrum because our Colex is currently working fine and we have a fair amount of small parts for it. It is still from 1994 though. It's also frankly a bit over sized for us. Having access to 6 processing lanes is amazing but just lifting the racks out for cleaning and maintenance can be a messy struggle. They're extremely heavy. As with everything, the electronics are as vulnerable as an Achilles heel. A few years ago Colex did tell me they could provide a new main board but, not sure how long that will last. Plus the entire thing wakes and sleeps based on a tiny little timer unit. If that thing goes down, you'd have to do some electrical work just to start the machine up! So, is it time to get an updated unit? It's a significant expense. How long do you decide to operate with general uncertainty?

Colenta currently makes 3 C41 RT machines. One is a 3 lane, 'rapid access' model. Rapid access is the chemistry used in minilabs. Dev-Bleach-Fix-Stab-Stab-Stab-Dry. Roughly 14m 30 seconds in the unit dry to dry. Second would be a traditional C41 3 lane model. Dev-Bleach-Wash-Fix-Wash-Stab, roughly 24 minutes in the machine. We currently run traditional C41 and we regenerate our bleach which offers significant cost savings over time, and presumably environmental upside as very little gets dumped. Three is nearly the same as the previous but it's 30cm instead of 20 so it adds a 4th lane and a different dryer design. Not sure why that dryer choices was made? (https://www.colenta.at/2025/wp-content/uploads/2025/07/30-C41-32-6-Tank-Pro.pdf) This unit is special order so it would take a few months to get one, we're in no rush. It would also be the least amount of step down for us since we only lose 2 lanes and our workflow remains constant. I've come to like the Fujiflim C41 chemistry quite a bit. You can see it in the scans, they take far fewer adjustments. This is the kind of thing that's not 'supposed' to be true, but just is.

So ideally I'd have a new Colenta C41 machine with 4 lanes and a 3 lane B&W machine. We could then scrub and clean the ATL2500 and resume doing 6 bath E6 with it, as Kodak/PhotoSys has released their 6 bath 5L kits. I also know for a fact that 3-4 new 'lab grade' scanners are coming soon so we will likely add the most robust of those options to replace our HS1800 which I spend most of my time on. That aforementioned scanner would be run by a new employee. So we'd have 1 studio manager, 1 Fuji Frontier Tech, 1 Noritsu HS1800 tech, Myself, who operates the new scanner and maintains the equipment, and theoretically a part timer who helps with shipping and other various tasks. That's the ideal set up anyway.

Would anyone like to commiserate with me on these difficult choices?

 

[koraks]

I can sympathize/empathize, commiserate if you will - but make things easier, nay! I understand the situation though. You're looking to make an investment under conditions that every management book or course on the planet will basically say "don't do it." Well, that's of course exaggerating a bit. But it's an inherently uncertain decision to make, and ultimately it's a judgement call on your behalf.

One of the problems of course is that while you buy new, this doesn't guarantee you'll be spared the necessary teething issues. And also your new purchase today doesn't guarantee Colenta will be around 5 years from now to service your machine.

I understand the need to grow (there's not really an alternative anyway), so in a way, it's not like you have that much of a choice. Yeah, compete for old Noritsu's and Frontiers with the up-and-coming youngsters who are easing themselves into a similar position as yours. You're much better aware of this than I am (or likely anyone else on this forum), but I assume the market for those old beasts is boiling hot and you'll still be left with an old clunker that may or may not have a couple of years' life left in it. And then there'll be the hunt for the elusive spare parts.

But, going out on a limb - it sounds a bit to me like you may have already made up your mind, isn't it? Then the question basically becomes whether you have the cash on hand to do this. If so, maybe just bite the bullet and hope for the best.

In what kind of period do you expect to recoup the investment on that new Colenta?

PS: I hope you're OK with me moving this to the Darkroom Equipment forum.

 

[AnselMortensen]

Circa 1983, I was an early-morning C-41 lab tech.
We used a roller-transport Colenta processor.
My job was to mix chems, pull & clean racks, run cleanup sheets, run film...and vacuum the front lobby.
I completely commiserate with you!

PS: Are cleanup sheets still being made?

 

[NortheastPhotographic]

If you're asking am I dead set on doing this, yes and no? Do I want to say out with the old, in with the new? Yes I do. Especially with scanners. I am sick of old scanners. The HS1800 is ok but the Frontiers, lord. Ancient Windows machines with lots of very persnickety behavioral traits. That being said, yeah it's a ton of money. We'd likely do an SBA loan with a long repayment window. Like I said, 25 years left in my career. Business continues to grow faster than we can adapt to it.

There are also other considerations when you run a shop like this. Can you trust employees to run the machines while you're not there? The colex, probably not. The Jobo...yes after a time. Both are machines where the best user is also prepared to get dirty and fix something that goes wrong. I am so envious of the 90s when I could probably just have Colex or Jobo send someone up here to fix something in a pinch....

But hey maybe the Colex RTF-20 is built so well that it'll keep running for another 25 years? I can't predict that. It would seem like no? Then there is the problem where it breaks down 'for good' and how long am I filling up a 12x roll drum for the Jobo to do C41? I shudder at the thought.

We're doing anywhere from 75 to 125 rolls of C41 a day, and 25 rolls of B&W a day. What we need to do to keep growing is keep turnarounds as fast as possible. I gave up on custom darkroom printing and Piezography. Nobody cared about that stuff, they just want their scans good and fast.

Re cleaning sheets, yes! Fujifilm makes them. https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod..._14965624_Roller_Transport_Cleaning_Film.html

 

[Cholentpot]

What is this retire thing?

 

[gbroadbridge]

Planning for 5 years from now I would consider a prudent business decision, but 25 years?

25 years ago, I thought digital was going to be a fad, so I was late to the party at significant business cost.

I think that the current film trend/resurgence is a fad by those who never experienced the pain of film as part of a business. It'll burn out when the next greatest advancement happens - no idea what that may be unfortunately.

And then it will be back to the very few remaining loyal soldiers to carry forward traditional processes - I doubt enough of us will remain standing to sustain any commercial enterprise - it'll all be home made emulsions coating whatever can be found, and alt processes.

Live your dream, but diversify.

Thats what I would have told my 40yo self 25 years ago.

 

[NortheastPhotographic]

Planning for 5 years from now I would consider a prudent business decision, but 25 years?

25 years ago, I thought digital was going to be a fad, so I was late to the party at significant business cost.

I think that the current film trend/resurgence is a fad by those who never experienced the pain of film as part of a business. It'll burn out when the next greatest advancement happens - no idea what that may be unfortunately.

And then it will be back to the very few remaining loyal soldiers to carry forward traditional processes - I doubt enough of us will remain standing to sustain any commercial enterprise - it'll all be home made emulsions coating whatever can be found, and alt processes.

Live your dream, but diversify.

Thats what I would have told my 40yo self 25 years ago.

There will always be people who want to use sails instead of an outboard, a turntable instead of Spotify, a horse instead of an ATV, or a film camera instead of digital. Plus I believe AI will push even more people toward analog artistry. Analog was said to be a on the way out 20 years ago, then it was a fad 10 years ago, and here we are...even after massive price spikes people are still reaching for HP5+ or Portra.

 

[gbroadbridge]

There will always be people who want to use sails instead of an outboard, a turntable instead of Spotify, a horse instead of an ATV, or a film camera instead of digital.

Absolutely - I'm one of them - heck I still use two way radios to keep up with old friends.

Plus I believe AI will push even more people toward analog artistry. Analog was said to be a on the way out 20 years ago, then it was a fad 10 years ago, and here we are...even after massive price spikes people are still reaching for HP5+ or Portra.

Sure, my point is that it is difficult to predict 5 years, let alone 25.

Live your dream, but don't put all your eggs into that basket.
A large investment in any one direction can end up hurting a business that has no funds left to adapt.

 

[NortheastPhotographic]

Absolutely - I'm one of them - heck I still use two way radios to keep up with old friends.



Sure, my point is that it is difficult to predict 5 years, let alone 25.

Live your dream, but don't put all your eggs into that basket.
A large investment in any one direction can end up hurting a business that has no funds left to adapt.

Understood! You're probably not wrong....

 

[calebarchie]

Only 75-125 rolls? In the States?

 

[NortheastPhotographic]

We operate almost entirely mail order in a rural area. That being said, that's a daily figure. I think it's pretty decent for our operation with a ton of headroom for capturing more market.