Leica IIIf opinions requested

[Horatio]

It seems that Leica continually made improvements/changes in the models. For instance the IIIf red dial's shutter has some ball bearings if I remember correctly.
The IIIf black dial's bottom plate added a "tab" to keep the film better positioned. All of these changes between models were minor. In fact I have discovered that
a lot of folks like model II.

The IIs seem pricier, and pricey is not in the budget.

How about the Russian copies, like a FED I?

 

[Sirius Glass]

The IIs seem pricier, and pricey is not in the budget.

How about the Russian copies, like a FED I?

Oh, I thought that this thread was about real cameras. I must have missed something.

 

[Horatio]

Oh, I thought that this thread was about real cameras. I must have missed something.

Hey, I’m just asking. What’s your opinion of the ii and iii series, Mr. Glass?

 

[John Koehrer]

I doubt you're going to notice much difference on the Leicas other than what's already been written. The more recent
cameras will be a bit more reliable(maybe).
Canon made ltm cameras too and the loading is more like newer camera with a swing open back instead of the bottom load.

The ONLY Leicas with ball bearing shutters were K(kugelager) mainly for the Luftwaffe. Usually the K model will
have a K or possibly a contract # on the top cover or a K stamped on the shutter curtain itself but apparently some unmarked ones
also got out of the factory.

Rangefinder forum is also a good source of information. I just find their site confusing to find what I might want.

 

[BradS]

Exactly

And I can't find this metal lens holder for 6$ as well...

I can’t either.
Seems like that claim was a bit of an exaggeration. Sorry.

 

[Saganich]

To get a good example is very satisfying, but make sure there is ample time to shoot a few test rolls before the return deadline. My feeling is there are a poor examples that look good, so much care is warranted.

 

[Bikerider]

The IIs seem pricier, and pricey is not in the budget.

How about the Russian copies, like a FED I?

The Russian cameras whilst based on Western bloc - AKA Leica and Contax models have a chequered history. They seem to have been made with very poor quality control. One sample off the production line can be brilliant, but the next off the line could be full of problems from day 1. The same applies to the lenses, I had a Fed fitted with the usual 50mm F2.8 and it was less than useless, whilst a Kiev IV with a 50mm F2 was as good as it gets with 12 x 16 prints being very good and with fine detail preserved. You pays your money you takes your chance.

There is no doubt about it in my view, but going down the line of joining the Leica 'club' can be very expensive. So how about the Canon Rangefinders. They were well made and can be bought for not a lot of money. Plus the lenses seem to be readily available and will be very good quality. The model 7 which was the last type made, in good condition, can be picked up for around £190 or roughly $250

 

[Horatio]

The Russian cameras whilst based on Western bloc - AKA Leica and Contax models have a chequered history. They seem to have been made with very poor quality control. One sample off the production line can be brilliant, but the next off the line could be full of problems from day 1. The same applies to the lenses, I had a Fed fitted with the usual 50mm F2.8 and it was less than useless, whilst a Kiev IV with a 50mm F2 was as good as it gets with 12 x 16 prints being very good and with fine detail preserved. You pays your money you takes your chance.

There is no doubt about it in my view, but going down the line of joining the Leica 'club' can be very expensive. So how about the Canon Rangefinders. They were well made and can be bought for not a lot of money. Plus the lenses seem to be readily available and will be very good quality. The model 7 which was the last type made, in good condition, can be picked up for around £190 or roughly $250

I’m familiar with the reputation for poor QC in other Russian cameras (Kiev, Salut, etc.), but I appreciate your confirmation for the Leica clones. The great auction site has several examples, all from Ukrainian sellers, that appear painted and decorated with Wermacht inscriptions(!) all for $200 US. Lol. Caveat emptor, but that can be said for any 40+ year old technology.

Frankly, I’ve never considered owning a Leica, due to the prices they command, but I don’t mind paying for quality. My basic questions were answered. Thanks to all.

 

[Helinophoto]

The IIs seem pricier, and pricey is not in the budget.

How about the Russian copies, like a FED I?

Hm, I have a Zorki 1 (basically the same stuff as the FED's) and although the exterior look similar, they are quite different from the Leica.

How to compare? If you think of the Leica IIIf as a light-weight, fine tuned swizz watch, the Zorki is a simplified, clunky, rough, block of left over metal from T-34 tank-production during the war it seems, then formed into the shape of a swizz watch.

Where my IIIf whispers "click...", my Zorki snaps "CLADOCKSKI!".

But, I love my Zorki (I actually use it more than my Leica and I have taken some of my finest portraits with it and the collapsible 50mm, can't remember the name anymore).
- And to its defense, everything just works, still. While my Leica IIIf no longer fires on the self-timer (the Zorki has no such capitalist nonsense).

Though, if you forget to wind the Zorki before you adjust the shutter-speed, you might just break it.....one of it's communist-quirks i guess.

I blogged about my Zorki ages ago, it even has photos
http://helino-photo.blogspot.com/2015/05/fsu-cameras-zorki.html

 

[guangong]

If ease of carry is a reason for choosing a LTM camera, the IIIg is much larger. Also, IIIg is coveted by collectors, driving up price. I have IIIa, IIIc and IIIf cameras. All are extremely reliable. However, the Canon clones should not be overlooked., quality construction and vf-rf combined but just as compact as LTM Leicas. As for supplemental finders, multiple finders made by Leitz, Canon, Zeiss, Nikon and others are available. Also my favorite, the tiny 28-35 Voigtlander finder. I would avoid Russian lenses 50mm and longer because flange to film plane is not same as Leica/Canon.
Separate rf, vf can be an advantage since counters the tendency to unnecessarily refocus for every shot. For me, this is the primary PITA regarding SLR cameras.

 

[Paul Howell]

LIght, small, good shooter, Canon P.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Hey, I’m just asking. What’s your opinion of the ii and iii series, Mr. Glass?

I have been thinking about Leica IIs and IIIs versus the M series. There is nothing like the feel of the M series. However I mainly use MF because I like the larger negative and handling the larger negative in the darkroom, so I am busy using my Hasselblads.

I am not positively impressed with what the Russians did with the Hasselblad and I am sure that I would be less than pleased with the Russian Leicas.

 

[weasel]

As with all old cameras, condition is everything. I had a leica lll years ago, that i really learned photography on, That camera is long gone, but I did buy a zorki 1 about 20 yers ago, and was shocked that its rangefinder was brighter than my leica, and the shutter just as quiet. I got lucky, got a good one, and my old leica was something of a beater. You could get decent fed or zorki and not break the bank, give yourself a chance to see if you can live with barnack foibles. I recently took a week long trip to new orleans, and all I brought was the zorki; I had forgotten how intuitive and easy to use barnak style cameras really are.

 

[Paul Howell]

I've been tempted to buy a Soviet Leica or Context clone, but in the end always give them a pass, quailty control was too poor, and dont have the mechinal skill set to rebuild one. If I was going to buy a Leica clone it would be a Canon P or 7, send it in for cleaning and adjustment.

 

[beemermark]

Not a leicoped here, but using rangefinders for decades.
IIIf is nice camera if you could find one with earlier back lens holder made from metal. Its own plastic ones are failing apart and letting focus, framing lenses go. Those are not available anymore as replacement.

The issue with plastic thingy on the iiif seems to be more hypothetical than practical reality. It's one of those legends that gets talked about and greatly amplified on the internet but, as a practical matter is really a non-issue.
besides, if you're really worried about it, you can buy a $6 metal replacement thingy and swap it out.

Having used various Leica bodies over half a century, and many of those were IIIF’s, what are we talking about? I have a IIIF in my lap right now and the only plastic piece I can see is the eyepiece. In response to another comment the eyepiece on Barnack will not scratch your glasses.

 

[awty]

My f doesnt even have a rangefinder, just a nice big view finder that sits on top. I never have enough time to use a rangefinder finder anyhow when doing street type photography, just guess and f8/f11 gives a bit of leeway.
Leica IF is the most quietest focal plane shutter I have and is neat and compact. Great with a wide lens.
For critical focusing I use another camera.

 

[Ron (Netherlands)]

Thanks. I know next to nothing about Leicas.

Then first try a cheap Zorki 1 or FED 1 and see if you like the style of shooting with these camera's before you buy the expensive Barnack Leica
(old Barnack Leica's have to be serviced like Zorki's and Fed's do, oh and very first FED's fetch more than a Barnack Leica)

comparison on shuttersounds:


other comparisons:

 

[John Koehrer]

Sometimes Youxin Yee will have something for sale.
He does Leica ltm repairs & has a good reputation.

 

[Horatio]

Then first try a cheap Zorki 1 or FED 1 and see if you like the style of shooting with these camera's before you buy the expensive Barnack Leica
(old Barnack Leica's have to be serviced like Zorki's and Fed's do, oh and very first FED's fetch more than a Barnack Leica)

comparison on shuttersounds:]

Thanks. I’m actually considering that option.

 

[Jim Jones]

My first Leica, a iiif, was bought new in 1952. An accident after ten years and many photos finished it off. The "improvements" in the iiig made it less of a pocket camera than I liked. My M2 and M4 were also large, but had qualities that made that size acceptable. I've also used Barnack style cameras like Nicca, Canon P, and Canon 7. The Nicca was given to a friend, and both Canons eventually failed. The much battered Leica M4 gave 40 years of perfect service until replaced by digital photography.

 

[GarageBoy]

iiia, iiic and iiif are plentiful and inexpensive - even the 5cm elmar is common and inexpensive

 

[Ron (Netherlands)]

Thanks. I’m actually considering that option.

Great! Once you're bitten by the virus, you won't let go.....

I had my time with Zorki's, Fed's and Leica's; here's one I once restored:


Leica IIIa sync repair & cla VII by Ron (Netherlands), on Flickr

..and here a NKVD FED which I restored for a fellowmember of flickr:
Internally the NKVD Feds are as well machined as the Barnack Leica's. This one needed new shutter curtains and a complete clean and lube ;-)


NKDV FED repair & cla XI by Ron (Netherlands), on Flickr

Here it is after restoring and servicing; clean and shiny...

NKDV FED repair & cla XV by Ron (Netherlands), on Flickr

 

[awty]

Great! Once you're bitten by the virus, you won't let go.....

I had my time with Zorki's, Fed's and Leica's; here's one I once restored:


Leica IIIa sync repair & cla VII by Ron (Netherlands), on Flickr

..and here a NKVD FED which I restored for a fellowmember of flickr:
Internally the NKVD Feds are as well machined as the Barnack Leica's. This one needed new shutter curtains and a complete clean and lube ;-)


NKDV FED repair & cla XI by Ron (Netherlands), on Flickr

Here it is after restoring and servicing; clean and shiny...

NKDV FED repair & cla XV by Ron (Netherlands), on Flickr

Nice work. I have a zorki 1, the gears look diecast and not of great quality. Maybe the really early ones are better.
Been meaning to get back to replacing the curtains on Canon barnack, tried to do it without a complete strip down, but thats been too difficult. The top plate in the first strip down looks like a f not an a.

 

[Andrew Kleinfeld]

I've been using a Leica IIIf for many years. I got it for $200 (used, of course) including the 50 mm collapsible Summarit on it. That's one of Leica's cheap lenses. 5 or 10 years ago I had to get the shutter curtain replaced because I'd worn a hole in it (the camera is from the 9150's after all). Though I have fancier cameras, I often make this my travel camera for a trip where I expect mostly to be at work with little time to take pictures. The reason is that it is so light and so compact that it presents no packing or carrying issues. And the pictures are excellent. I've gotten adequate sharpness at 1/15 of a second. Wonderful camera, easy to focus, smooth to shoot, looks great, enjoyable to use.

 

[Ron (Netherlands)]

Nice work. I have a zorki 1, the gears look diecast and not of great quality. Maybe the really early ones are better.
Been meaning to get back to replacing the curtains on Canon barnack, tried to do it without a complete strip down, but thats been too difficult. The top plate in the first strip down looks like a f not an a.

Thanks. Zorki's where manufactured as from 1948, whereas FED's were made as from 1934 shortly after the first years of the Leica II and were meant to be a copy of the German camera - Lenin had asked the Germans for licensed production, but they refused, so he started his copy work. Internally the NKVD Feds and some earlier ones have brass internals machined like Germans would do.
Btw later Leica's were also made with diecast bodies; diecast is much more rigid than plate iron - so the diecast is not why later Zorki's got less quality. It is because of too fast production with lacking quality control and indeed lateron cheaper materials were used. However many of these camera's are doing fine if well serviced and finely adjusted > I prefer to shoot with a finely adjusted Zorki 4 than with a Barnack Leica

I always do a complete strip-down since it reveals other faults and hidden dirt - best way to do it IMHO albeit laboursom of course.