Kowa Six Shutter Button Issue (and Internal Foam Replacement?)

[Jeremy Mudd]

OK, sounds to me like the lens is jammed/dead, and keeping the camera from advancing and closing the mirror. I've seen this happen to a SIX before, and with them you can usually get the lens off in this state.

It's probably in half-state at this point - don't force it whatever you do. That explains why the back won't come off - its locked because its halfway thru and its trying to keep you from exposing the film. The Super 66 has a bayonet release button instead of the lever found on the SIX and MM, and it can't be forced to release the lens.

My next steps would be:

Remove the flash/grip mount on the left side (two big flathead screws)
Peel off leatherette
Remove the 5 small Phillips screws that hold the left side cover on
Remove cover
Pull back the bayonet lock pin from the inside to release the lens and remove

From there you can check to see if the lens works or if it is jammed. If the lens is jammed, frankly its easier and cheaper to just buy another used one. Hopefully the body is still good and you can put that side back together and glue the leatherette back on with some Plyobond cement.

Jeremy

 

[Jeremy Mudd]

Here's an image from my repair manual referencing the screws to remove:

 

[yeolde]

Thank you Jeremy!
I will try to fix that kowa today

 

[yeolde]

Jeremy, would you be so kind to send me a pdf of the manual? I already buyed this manual on Ebay but they refused to send me a pdf and now i should wait for the mail for 2-3 weeks

 

[yeolde]

Here is the proof ! We are hardly waiting for this book to come with my repairman, cause kowa not a simple camera... I asked you because there is a chance to start a lens repair after unlocking... is there a shutter explained in the sections?

 

[Alex Varas]

The operation he said is correct to release the lens, the manual won’t provide much information, I have it (now boxed somewhere).
My Super 6 had the same issue, the problem was in the ring that moves the shutter lens pins, someone didn’t mount it correctly and it didn’t do the whole movement till the end so the lens got stuck sometimes but not always. Your case might be different but for unlocking the lens that procedure works.

 

[Alex Varas]

The shutter is basically the same as Mamiya RB67 lens shutters, access to it it’s a bit different but with the correct tools and doing things carefully shouldn’t be a problem if you have experience doing such things.

 

[Jeremy Mudd]

Jeremy, would you be so kind to send me a pdf of the manual? I already buyed this manual on Ebay but they refused to send me a pdf and now i should wait for the mail for 2-3 weeks

I don't have a PDF copy of it, just a physical paper original manual I purchased a long time ago.

As Alex stated above, the "repair manual" doesn't have a great deal of info. I think there's nothing in it about the lenses.

If the lens is toast, I stand by my recommendation to just buy another one. Unless your camera repairman is cheap AND good, its not worth it to pay someone to fix it.

The lenses are not simple nor are they easy to work on.

Good luck!

Jeremy

 

[yeolde]

Alex,

The shutter is basically the same as Mamiya RB67 lens shutters,

So, it is Seiko #1?

Jeremy,

repairman is cheap AND good

Exactly! And very old... We will no doubt re-adjust the camera, and the shutters. It will be a big work, starting with the locking issue...
I know about the manual it is not very informative. hovewer it is an useful crutch to do not spend much time deciding on assembly sequences. So it will be wonderful if you can scan it. No problem if not!

Gentlemen, I want to say ya'll a big !THANKS! for your invaluable recommendations and informations! Got every bit! Best wishes!

 

[Alex Varas]

The only critical point for the lens is when you have the shutter out of the lens already. Under the cocking lever/ring at the back there are some balls and brass sticks that can be lost pretty easly if not doing things carefully.
Your problem can be easly as well in the lens, excess of oil at these parts as I saw in a couple of Kowa lenses.
Yes, Seiko #1 type.

 

[yeolde]

Gentlemen. Camera is unlocked with the method of Jeremy Mudd. Thank you!

AlexVaras - do the Kalloflex still with you?

 

[yeolde]

85 mm black lens is stuck, will clean it out ;-)

 

[moto-uno]

Love to see some successes with these favoured cameras of mine . I'm about to do a little work on
a silver 85mm lens . (did I say 'a little work' ? ). Peter

 

[Alex Varas]

Gentlemen. Camera is unlocked with the method of Jeremy Mudd. Thank you!

AlexVaras - do the Kalloflex still with you?

Not anymore, I had to reduce and Kalloflex was one of them.
Still I need to test my Kowa 6MM with both lenses after getting the new screen from Rick Oleson.

 

[yeolde]

alexvaras
Small world! I talked to you in Avito. Your Kalloflex is now mine. We fixed that problem with uneven front standard, next months we'll see how the taking lens will perform.
This was not an easy task, thou! But now done!
(but i live next house to the one of the most skilled camera tecnician (sadly he is very old) and i operate one of the best film scanners, so i can look) <= in the whole (very big) country
You are welcome, if you will visit our city, even my wife would be pleased to talk to you in spanish! And if you wish to drum scan some negs i can arrange that easy for you ;-)

 

[Alex Varas]

Glad all went well.

 

[ZiaSun]

Hi All,

I have a Kowa six that is in good condition but the shutter jams when film is in the camera. When no film is loaded the shutter winds and fires fine. Does anyone have any suggestions on how to fix? I sent the camera into a repair place in Texas that returned it without fixing the problem. Does anyone have a PDF repair manual?

Thanks!

 

[Alex Varas]

There is only one manual that I know from a Super Six and the winding mechanism is much simpler in the Six version.
If only with film is getting jammed I think the problem would be in the roller that moves the film counter.
Does it load correctly till frame 1? Does it release correctly? Does it winds fine or already jammed?
Have you tried those steps above without the lens?

How do you fix it when it’s jammed?

Try with only back paper if you don’t have already exposed film.

 

[Jeremy Mudd]

There is only one manual that I know from a Super Six and the winding mechanism is much simpler in the Six version.
If only with film is getting jammed I think the problem would be in the roller that moves the film counter.
Does it load correctly till frame 1? Does it release correctly? Does it winds fine or already jammed?
Have you tried those steps above without the lens?

How do you fix it when it’s jammed?

Try with only back paper if you don’t have already exposed film.

Correct on the manual. Someone was working recently on a "new" manual for the SIX and SIX MM but I never saw anything come of it.

I had a SIX one time that actually worked fine with the backing paper but then wouldn't function when actual thicker film+paper was in it.

Jeremy

 

[ZiaSun]

There is only one manual that I know from a Super Six and the winding mechanism is much simpler in the Six version.
If only with film is getting jammed I think the problem would be in the roller that moves the film counter.
Does it load correctly till frame 1? Does it release correctly? Does it winds fine or already jammed?
Have you tried those steps above without the lens?

How do you fix it when it’s jammed?

Try with only back paper if you don’t have already exposed film.

Hi Alex,

Thanks for the quick reply. It does load correctly until frame one. It winds fine, but when it gets to frame one the shutter jams. When I open the back of the camera the jam releases. Someone had responded to a thread that they had a similar issues and theirs was resolved by firing the film counter so that sounds like the right path. I'm new to working on cameras though used to working on things in general). I wasn't sure how to remove the winding wheel and open the side cover. Are the screws under the black vinyl? Thanks!

 

[Jeremy Mudd]

Hi Alex,

Thanks for the quick reply. It does load correctly until frame one. It winds fine, but when it gets to frame one the shutter jams. When I open the back of the camera the jam releases. Someone had responded to a thread that they had a similar issues and theirs was resolved by firing the film counter so that sounds like the right path. I'm new to working on cameras though used to working on things in general). I wasn't sure how to remove the winding wheel and open the side cover. Are the screws under the black vinyl? Thanks!

Peel the leatherette off of the winding nob. Under that is a brass screw that requires a two pronged removal tool to spin it off. You can make do with a really small pair of needle nosed pliers in a pinch. Once you've removed the winding nob, remove the two pieces of leatherette on the side plate. Under that are screws at the outer perimeters. Be certain you have a good set of micro screwdrivers as the screws can be tight and will strip out rather easily. You'll also need to spin off the collar ring that's around the strap lug that's attached at the silver middle portion.

Jeremy

 

[ZiaSun]

Peel the leatherette off of the winding nob. Under that is a brass screw that requires a two pronged removal tool to spin it off. You can make do with a really small pair of needle nosed pliers in a pinch. Once you've removed the winding nob, remove the two pieces of leatherette on the side plate. Under that are screws at the outer perimeters. Be certain you have a good set of micro screwdrivers as the screws can be tight and will strip out rather easily. You'll also need to spin off the collar ring that's around the strap lug that's attached at the silver middle portion.

Jeremy

Thanks Jeremy!
Once in the camera I looking for any irregularities with the roller that moves the film counter making sure its moving freely? To put the leatherette back on do you use something like rubber cement?

THanks!

 

[Jeremy Mudd]

Thanks Jeremy!
Once in the camera I looking for any irregularities with the roller that moves the film counter making sure its moving freely? To put the leatherette back on do you use something like rubber cement?

THanks!

Kowa SIX's are very complicated mechanically. IMHO they are overly-complicated. There's a lot to go wrong with them and it often does. Unless you are fairly experienced with working on mechanical film cameras, I don't suggest to try to do much yourself unless you are in a "what else do I have to lose" situation where there's no hope of getting it repaired and you are OK with it staying or becoming a large, square paperweight.

The shutter is actually a leaf shutter in the lens. The big "barn door" that moves up and down inside the camera that you called a shutter is a light trap that protects the film from exposure while composing and is part of the shooting sequence when you press the button. It moves up and out of the way, the iris in the lens moves to the chosen f-stop opening, and the leaf shutter in the lens fires. Winding afterwards moves the barn door in the camera to a closed position, moves the shot counter, and re-cocks the leaf shutter, and opens the iris back to full open.

That said, once you've removed the side plate, put the wind crank back on, put film in it, closed the back, and wind it on to the first frame and watch what's going on. You may see the jam and it may be something you can address. Based on your description it is probably related to the roller that runs the film counter, which is clearly visible with the side plate off. It also could be the lever that tells the camera the back is shut which works in conjunction with the whole winding/cocking system. If the camera has sat for a long while, it could just need a cleaning and light lube. Or something is worn/broken and the part is NLA.

I'm assuming you've already checked the lens to ensure its not an issue, but if you haven't - remove the lens, manually cock it, then "fire" it off camera to see how it works. If the lens is hard to cock or doesn't fully cock (stops just short of the point where it cocks and stays cocked), the camera is having problems overcoming the resistance and can't complete the cocking sequence.

I don't want to seem down on Kowa SIX's as I have owned, repaired, and sold several. When they work as intended they are great systems with sharp lenses and a very nice user form factor. I still have 5 or 6 complete kits of SIX's and Super 66's that I will probably sell in the near future, along with a bunch of accessories and spare parts. I take good care of my equipment and like to keep things in good working order, and have a decent knowledge of camera repair. That said any purchase of a Kowa SIX is caveat emptor. I sold a kit to someone here over the winter that worked perfect - I had used it several times, replaced the seals, even shot a test-roll the week prior to listing it. They buyer received it and it didn't work. The lens was still good but the body wasn't firing. There was no damage to the box in shipping. It was just its time to die. It wasn't worth it to ship it back to me and spend my time breaking it open, so I gave him back all of his money and let him keep the good lens and WLF to use on another good body if he found one.

Right now Kowa SIX's, MM's, and Super 66's are getting a lot of exposure in various forums as they are one of the few 6x6 cameras that hasn't had a huge price jump in recent years. So they've been recently "discovered" as a good way to get into medium format. If someone came to me on a budget and stated that they wanted to buy their first medium format camera, there are other cameras like 6x6 folders or TLR's that I'd recommend over a Kowa. I only say this because if you can't get it working, there are other alternatives versus throwing money after another one.

I've answered your glue question already in a prior post at the top of the page where I was helping a prior poster with their Super 66.

Good luck!

Jeremy

 

[ZiaSun]

Thanks for all of your information Jeremy. I figured I'd give it a try. Hopefully I won't destroy the camera and at the least Ill learn something.

I was able to open the camera. Here are a few photos of what I found. The film counter does seem to jam. When it jams the shutter button actuator doesn't line up (see picture). If I spin the film counter (without film in the camera it recreates the jam as well).

Any next step suggestions. Thanks for your help.

Photo 1: Jamming position of shutter button actuator (yellow arrow)
Photo 2: Position of shutter button actuator aligned properly (green arrow)
Photo 3: The position of the film counter, springs, etc when it jams

 

[ZiaSun]

You won't believe this-- I fixed it. And all I had to do was pull this little lever.

Seriously, that was the issue this hole time. It looks like it was stuck to the gear it couples with, preventing anything from moving. After I unstuck it, with a click everything else fell into place.
Thank you so much everyone for your help and assistance-- let's keep kowas alive! )

Hi Avery could you repost the picture of the lever that you had to move? I am having a similar issue but the photo you posted above doesn't show up. Thanks!