Kowa Six Shutter Button Issue (and Internal Foam Replacement?)

[AveryMiller]

Hello! First time poster here, so please let me know if I'm posting in the wrong category or something
I'm a college student getting into medium format. I was looking for an SLR, so naturally I kept my eyes peeled for a Kowa Six. I got one that's in very good cosmetic condition, but has some kind of shutter issue. The lens comes off, the mirror is down, the shutter counter is at zero, and the winder doesn't budge. You can press in the shutter button, but it doesn't trigger anything (shown in the video).

I found an old forum post saying that you can try to manually move the mechanism the lens' pins go into with a screw driver, but I haven't had any success with that as it's stuck solid. I've takes both of the sides off the camera to expose the gears, and it looks like a gear that should have tension against the shutter button isn't coming into contact with the button. (I understand this is a common issue with Kowa Sixes.) If anyone has any suggestions or recommendations on steps I could take to troubleshoot this, help would be really appreciated.
Another question I have relates to the side of the camera without the winding crank. Under the metal cover, there is some pieces of foam that have deteriorated a lot over the years, including one segment that stretches horizontally across the camera.

I'm planning on cleaning it up and replacing the foam, but I want to make sure that this is just light sealing foam and that it doesn't serve some mechanical purpose.
Thank so much for the assistance!!

 

[Alex Varas]

Welcome for posting and bravo for the Kowa 6, I was told that some repairman don’t accept this camera due the unreliability even after serving it...
Anyway I had no idea about it until I tried myself with one 6MM.
Here is the link for some photos and explanations, I had the camera in better shape, it could wind, cock the lens and fire, it only needed a good cleaning in the mirror side panel.
As yours, the foam was literally falling apart and it’s only for avoiding light leaks, you can get a thick new foam and replace the parts you remove.
I hope you can manage
If I remember anything else I will post it.

https://www.flickr.com/gp/11782047@N02/07G94a

Alex

 

[Paul Howell]

Kowa was made in small numbers and last made in 1977 or so. I've looked for a shop manual, not much on You Tube, so I've sent mine off. Ross Yerkes is the only tech that I know of who will work on Kowa, for that matter he works on many cameras that most techs will not touch. He has a few parts, donor bodies, I've used him to service my Kowa 6 and Super 6 and lens. I issue that he seems to a racist and anti Semitic, over the last few years he includes offensive new letters in with the cameras that are returned. I don't know he still doing that, I last had a 55mm lens serviced maybe 12 years ago, at that time no news letters, Puts me in a double blind, need my Kowas worked on but at what price, which is too bad, Kowa is a fine camera, lens are really good. BTW there is separate thread for repair and modification. And Ross Yerkes does not have a web site, if you want to get an estimate you can call to find out what his current rates are for diagnostics.
Ross Yerkes Camera Repair
Camera repair shop in Los Angeles, California
Address: 342 Kirby St, Los Angeles, CA 90042
Phone: (323) 256-1018

 

[thuggins]

I admire your ambition in trying to repair the camera, but reading thru the manual first would have been time well spent. You should never try to fire the shutter with the lens off. Because it is a leaf shutter mounted in the lens, as opposed to a focal plane shutter in the body, it is necessary that the body and the lens be kept "in sync".

From what I can see in the video, it appears the shutter mechanism is set. Try remounting the lens and then see if the shutter fires. You may need to make sure the the pins on the lens are rotated fully counter clockwise to align with the red dots. The manual does state that there is an interlock to prevent the lens from being removed if the shutter is not cocked. I don't see a mention of an interlock that prevents the shutter from firing if a lens is not on, and I'm not going to try to do that with mine.

In general, the lens mount/demount process on any SLR with in lens shutters is more finicky than with focal plane shutters. I can attest to a world of difference between my Kowa 6 and Mamiya 645. From what I have read, Hasselblads are very problematic in this area.

The user manual can be found here: https://www.cameramanuals.org/prof_pdf/kowa_66.pdf

A quick web search appears to show that Ross Yerkes is still open for business. He CLA'd my Kowa 6 body and a couple of lenses a year or two ago. He is the world expert for the Kowa. It's amazing he's still alive, let alone still working. Search Ross Yerkes Camera Repair and you'll get the phone number and address.

It's questionable how much help he will be on a phone call; Ross is a bit ... eccentric. The CLA for a the body was pretty cheap, maybe $100 bucks or so, as the complexity is in the lens. If you can afford it, it would be well worth having him do a CLA. The foam is just a light seal. It does degrade with time. Black yarn is a good, simple substitute.

Edit: Paul beat me to the recommendation for Ross and goes into more detail on his quirks. I have seen a number of people criticize him over the years and claim they are too principled and moral to do business with him. I have spoken with him several times and he has always been very pleasant and helpful. The inserts included with the returned product were an interesting insight into alternative views of reality.

Ross is an individual who is entitled to his own opinions and beliefs. This is not a case of a multinational corporation trying to shove their values down our throats. If you are too fragile to do business with a skilled and conscientious craftsman because he holds opinions different from you, that is your problem.

 

[Paul Howell]

I just took my 6 out, it was locked but unlocked when I opened the film door. In addition to the mirror there is a light baffle behind the mirror, if it gets jammed the film will not advance and shutter will not fire BTW, the film advance has always been the one real weakness of the Kowa system I never use the lever that pops out form the crank, and advance the film slowly.

 

[AveryMiller]

Thanks so much for the quick responses! That flickr album is very informative, alex. I'm glad you linked to that because I have been unable to find any disassembles online.
Ross seems to be the only Kowa service person out there at the moment, I saw him recommended in that aforementioned forum thread from 2005. "Eccentricity" aside, I hope there are other technicians out there servicing Kowas if Ross were to retire!
Tim, I can confirm that the camera does not work with the lens attached, but I'll be sure to continue with it mounted. My understanding was that the "sync" between the lens and the body just requires the lens' pins to line up with the pin holes on the body (the manual mentions winding the film advanced and making sure the lens is in the open position), is it more significant than that?
Paul, I've read about mechanical issues that can occur when the camera is cocked and not fired for a long period of time, and I assume my issue is related, although time will tell! It does appear that the mirror and baffle are in "viewing position", while the gears (specifically the one that comes into contact with the shutter button) doesn't have any tension, as if it has been fired.
This has been very helpful so far and I really appreciate everyone's time!

 

[moto-uno]

I've repaired a few Kowa Sixes in the last few years ( with some shutter leaf parts from Ross) . On the bottom of the camera ,
where the tripod thread is , there is a plate with 4 screws . Under this plate is the main spring that assists in the firing of the
shutter . The spring in the lens is very weak and needs this assist spring . If the mechanism attached to this spring is possibly
seized , nothing will move . This mechanism works through a 90 degree gear set . Pm me , I think I still have some pics of what
to expect . Also the winding mechanism will work and fire without the lens attached . On the winding side there is the plate with 3
arms and the winder shaft , the gear that fails ( and sometimes jams ) is underneath that plate . I had to make a tooth from a carbide
table saw blade to repair mine . Hopefully yours isn't that bad . I own 3 and love them all , even if 2 of them drove me to drink ( not a
long drive ) to finally get them working properly . Peter

 

[Alex Varas]

Nice tip, Peter, about the bottom plate, I didn’t get to that part, in my case it was working fine.

 

[AveryMiller]

nder this plate is the main spring that assists in the firing of the
shutter . The spring in the lens is very weak and needs this assist spring .

First, let me say that I am very glad you saw this thread! Just the other day I saw your post in a kowa related thread from a few years back, and I nearly pmed you directly but I wasn't able to since my account is brand new
I went ahead and opened up the bottom of my camera and the mechanism in there is as stiff as can be-- I'm not getting any movement what so ever when I attempt to wiggle the gears a little bit. It's all greek to me though, so here's a photo.

Any suggestions you might have would be a huge help!

 

[moto-uno]

That's slightly different from the Super 66's . I'll try and remove the plate from my one Kowa six and get back in a day or so .
Weather here is great and the motorcycle is calling me . Peter
I'll check to see if there's any play with it cocked and uncocked .In your picture the top bevel gear has another straight cut gear on it that
drives the plate( the one with the 2 holes) that cocks the shutter in the lens . If any of these shafts are seized it'll prevent the
shutter from releasing

 

[AveryMiller]

You won't believe this-- I fixed it. And all I had to do was pull this little lever.

Seriously, that was the issue this hole time. It looks like it was stuck to the gear it couples with, preventing anything from moving. After I unstuck it, with a click everything else fell into place.
Thank you so much everyone for your help and assistance-- let's keep kowas alive! )

 

[Alex Varas]

Congrats! Good for you!!
My Kowa will arrive next week, let’s see how is it, maybe I need to ask for help here as well

 

[thuggins]

Good to hear you fixed. I will pray for a similar miracle for the Ikoflex lying in pieces on my workbench.

Before we leave the Kowa Six, does anyone know where they hid the serial number? I've literally be over mine with a magnifying glass and cannot find one. I'm certain that they serialized the bodies.

 

[Paul Howell]

What do think cause the lever to jam in the first place? I had a Miranda 35mm that jamed in a similar manner, once unjamed it did not rejam but I never figured what caused it to jam in the first place.

 

[moto-uno]

This is just too lucky , I'm sitting here with my Kowa in hand to remove the bottom plate when I thought I'd check up on this thread .
Peter

 

[AveryMiller]

What do think cause the lever to jam in the first place?

I'm not sure, but it looks like there was something on the tip of the lever that was causing the trouble.
After putting everything back together, it froze up again! I ended up taking the cover off again, but it turns out opening up the film back fixed it! I had moved the 120/220 film lever after firing the shutter without even thinking, so that was my fault.
I'm going to try to track down some similarly sized screws so I don't have to deal with the originals, which are pretty roughed up at this point

 

[AveryMiller]

This is just too lucky , I'm sitting here with my Kowa in hand to remove the bottom plate when I thought I'd check up on this thread .
Peter

Thank you so much for the help, I hope this thread helps some people in the future who have similar issues!

 

[Jeremy Mudd]

Good job on getting it to work again.

I've repaired several Six's over the past year and have resealed all three models. Light seals are not commercially available but you can easily cut a set from stock seal foam. I also own several RB67's and will cut seals for Six's from the left-over pieces. A tip on replacing the seals on the film door back - the door comes off by moving the little silver lever on the upper left side (when looking at it from the back). This makes it easier to replace the long seal on the top and the short seals on the sides.

Another mode of lock-up on them is the damping cylinder on the side opposite of the crank. If they sit for a long time cocked but not fired, they are prone to freezing up.

Below is an image of a Six that I replaced the damping cylinder, lubed, and replaced all of the seals. The leatherette was dead so I replaced it with some brown leatherette to make it look different.

Jeremy

 

[moto-uno]

Nice job with the leatherette . I've looked for some kits for my Kowa's , but none are available . Might have to break down
and buy some sheets and try that myself . I love the older shiny lenses , even if they weigh a ton compared to the newer lens . Peter

 

[Jeremy Mudd]

Nice job with the leatherette . I've looked for some kits for my Kowa's , but none are available . Might have to break down
and buy some sheets and try that myself . I love the older shiny lenses , even if they weigh a ton compared to the newer lens . Peter

Worth a try - none of the sheets that I've used on re-skins stick well with the supplied adhesive - plyobond seems to work the best for me.

I agree on the silver lenses - they just do it for me. Too bad they are also more prone to failing than the last generation black ones. I have three dead silver 85/2.8 lenses in a parts box in one varying degree of disassembly or another. Their rear and front elements, and other bits, have helped others survive to take images another day.

Jeremy

 

[moto-uno]

Now you've piqued my curiosity , what perchance was "dead" in you last silver 85 lenses ? I've had almost all of mine apart , most simply needed
cleaning ( no 5 minute task) and one needed a couple of shutter blades that Ross Yerkes supplied me with . Peter

 

[Jeremy Mudd]

Now you've piqued my curiosity , what perchance was "dead" in you last silver 85 lenses ? I've had almost all of mine apart , most simply needed
cleaning ( no 5 minute task) and one needed a couple of shutter blades that Ross Yerkes supplied me with . Peter

Two have messed up shutter blades, one has 2 broken aperture blades and a broken rear cocking ring (the part with the tabs that engage with the camera to cock the lens) from where it looks like someone forced it with some sort of lever - those are at least the problems I can tell on the third one - it has a bunch of stuff rattling around in it. I pulled the rear element from that one for another lens and haven't done much else with it. The first two I could probably fix the shutter blades if I really wanted to reach out to Ross to get more. All three are the early version of the lens that doesn't have the screws that hold on the front bezel.

Ironically every black 85mm I have had thru my hands has worked fine, other than two that didn't stop down properly with DOF preview. Those just needed a cleaning - which I agree, isn't an easy task.

Jeremy

 

[yeolde]

HI! Gear stuck on Super 66 when I started winding when where is a "t" and shutter was open! Now the cameta is completely locked. Anybody mind that issue?

 

[Jeremy Mudd]

HI! Gear stuck on Super 66 when I started winding when where is a "t" and shutter was open! Now the cameta is completely locked. Anybody mind that issue?

I saw you ask this question on the Kowa/SIX facebook group, which probably isn't the best place since most of the folks are there only to post pictures and know little about the cameras.

That said, I didn't quite understand your question then and still don't.

Are you saying the lens was on "T" mode and the shutter open, and then you wound the camera? That should just close the shutter in the lens, and not cause everything lock up. I just pulled a lens off of one and mimicked that by firing it in "T" mode then pushing the cocking levers back to the red cocked mark. The shutter just closed at the first movement and the lens works fine.

Are you saying it won't fire now? Have you taken the lens off and checked to see that its cocked and/or fires on its own manually with the levers in the back? Removed the back and checked to see that everything is correct? Unfortunately the Super 66 is a complicated beast with a lot of moving parts. I own two of them but haven't really done much work on them compared to the number of Six's that I've torn apart.

Jeremy

 

[yeolde]

Hi Jeremy!

Are you saying the lens was on "T" mode and the shutter open, and then you wound the camera

Exactly! In my case the camera was stuck! I guess the shutter remains open cause the shutter button can be pressed too freely without a feedback. Get shutter to 1s with no effect on situation. shutter ring turns tight
I can not press release bayonet button. I can not turn bayonet locking ring. I can not advance film winding crank. i cant remove the back.
I can open the back