Kodak's New 4x5 Film Packaging!

[Arklatexian]

Am I the last one to hear that Kodak (yes the much maligned Kodak), is coming out in the near future with 10 sheet packages of 3 different 4x5 films? What a pleasant surprise. Now we will be able to try all three of these films for about the same price as one 50 sheet box of any one of these films. What a great idea though I am sure that some one will find a reason or reasons to complain. As you can tell, I like the idea. What do you think?

 

[Wayne]

You've managed to put a good spin on what is mostly a bad thing, IMO. Kodak will ONLY be selling sheet film in 10 sheet boxes from now on. That is my understanding.

 

[locutus]

69 euros for 10 sheets of Portra160......yeah i'm not rich enough for that

 

[MultiFormat Shooter]

Kodak will ONLY be selling sheet film in 10 sheet boxes from now on.

I have heard (on another forum) that Kodak will continue to sell 50 sheet boxes, at least in the near-term. I cannot, personally, confirm or deny it though.

 

[RSalles]

69 euros for 10 sheets of Portra160......yeah i'm not rich enough for that

They're preparing for bankruptcy again - one time is not enough,

Cheers,

Renato

 

[John Wiegerink]

I have heard (on another forum) that Kodak will continue to sell 50 sheet boxes, at least in the near-term. I cannot, personally, confirm or deny it though.

Yes, that's what I read also. Unfortunately, I think the folks above are insinuating that there will only be 10 sheet boxes or none at all since the cost is to high. I've switched to Iford for the bulk of my B&W work. I refuse to pay that much difference in cost for the yellow brand. It's a sad day since I think this is a "shot in the foot" type move on Kodak Alaris's part. Of course they might not have a choice in this. It could be their film supplier is gouging them with high price film stock????? Either way, I'm happy with Ilford.

 

[Wayne]

Yes, that's what I read also. Unfortunately, I think the folks above are insinuating that there will only be 10 sheet boxes or none at all since the cost is to high. I've switched to Iford for the bulk of my B&W work. I refuse to pay that much difference in cost for the yellow brand. It's a sad day since I think this is a "shot in the foot" type move on Kodak Alaris's part. Of course they might not have a choice in this. It could be their film supplier is gouging them with high price film stock????? Either way, I'm happy with Ilford.

I have heard (on another forum) that Kodak will continue to sell 50 sheet boxes, at least in the near-term. I cannot, personally, confirm or deny it though.

I got my info from the thread at the Large Format Forum that says Kodak will only be selling 10 sheet boxes of 4x5 B&W film going forward. I don't buy Kodak B&W sheet film so I don't know what they sell now in B&W, but i do buy color and they don't even sell 50 sheet boxes of color film now, as far as I know.

 

[Richard Man]

Kodak Color films are 10 sheets only since 3-4 years ago when I started with the stuff. I WISH they have 50 sheet boxes. I will load up the freezer with them.

 

[Wayne]

You've managed to put a good spin on what is mostly a bad thing, IMO. Kodak will ONLY be selling sheet film in 10 sheet boxes from now on. That is my understanding.

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Dear Andrew,

Perhaps a bit of confusion,

Kodak T-Max 100, T-Max 400, and Tri-X Pan 320 will now be available in 10 count sheet boxes, which is consistent with our Color Negative 4x5 sheet films.

In conjunction with this change, we are announcing the discontinuation of the 50 sheet-4x5 black and white film items.

Regards,

Thomas J. Mooney....

 

[Wayne]

Am I the last one to hear that Kodak (yes the much maligned Kodak)

Let the maligning begin/continue

 

[MattKing]

Post #59 in the same thread as the earlier Kodak Alaris email quote:
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Email I just received from Kodak Alaris...

Dear Andrew,

Some good news to share. We have decided to maintain availability of the 50 sheet-4 x 5 black and white film items along with the new 10 sheet items for the time being.

Best regards,

Thomas J. Mooney | Film Capture Business Manager
Kodak Alaris Inc., 2400 Mount Read Blvd., Rochester, NY 14615-03020
thomas.j.mooney@kodakalaris.com | Office: 585.310.5776 | Mobile: 585.520.2639
www.kodakalaris.com
cid:image001.png@01D0784F.34F11A30


Good news, eh!

Just over three weeks between the emails. Both were in January 2017.

 

[Wayne]

Post #59 in the same thread as the earlier Kodak Alaris email quote:
(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

Email I just received from Kodak Alaris...

Dear Andrew,

Some good news to share. We have decided to maintain availability of the 50 sheet-4 x 5 black and white film items along with the new 10 sheet items for the time being.

Best regards,

Thomas J. Mooney | Film Capture Business Manager
Kodak Alaris Inc., 2400 Mount Read Blvd., Rochester, NY 14615-03020
thomas.j.mooney@kodakalaris.com | Office: 585.310.5776 | Mobile: 585.520.2639
www.kodakalaris.com
cid:image001.png@01D0784F.34F11A30


Good news, eh!

Just over three weeks between the emails. Both were in January 2017.

Ah thanks, I didnt read that far. So obviously Mooney can't be trusted.

 

[Sal Santamaura]

...So obviously Mooney can't be trusted...

Kodak, including Thomas Mooney, can be 100% trusted to respond to the market. If 10-sheet boxes sell well and 50-sheet boxes don't, count on the 50-sheet boxes being discontinued. It will all be determined by film purchasers, not Kodak.

 

[Luckless]

Haven't been following the prices till now since I only just started shooting 4x5, but is the cost per sheet taking a noticeable hit?

Personally I'm kind of on the fence about box sizes for my film. 50 just seems like a lot of film at a time to have a stupid accident with. The 25 sheet Ilford boxes I have now feel reasonable, but I'm likely switching to the larger boxes if I do end up shooting a decent volume of 4x5 since they're more cost effective. I expect I'll always have that nagging worry over having some issue with the film, regardless of box size, just the larger ones will probably nag a little more. (On the other hand, the extra nagging and worry will encourage more care, and therefore lower odds of mistakes?)

 

[Wayne]

Kodak, including Thomas Mooney, can be 100% trusted to respond to the market. If 10-sheet boxes sell well and 50-sheet boxes don't, count on the 50-sheet boxes being discontinued. It will all be determined by film purchasers, not Kodak.

Thank you Sal, our pro bono corporate defender. I don't know what we'd do without you. We might find ourselves occasionally believing that corporations make poor decisions that aren't in the best interests of consumers or themselves, but its good to keep being reminded otherwise.

 

[frobozz]

Now we will be able to try all three of these films for about the same price as one 50 sheet box of any one of these films.

I for sure thought you were being sarcastic when you said this (above) was a great idea, but you're serious aren't you? I mean 30-for-the-price-of-50 doesn't seem like a good idea to me!

But yes, if by selling these "trial size packs" IN ADDITION TO the 50 packs, they allow people to more easily try out a new film, that's probably a good thing. Effectively raising the price by only selling the teeny tiny packs would not be a good thing.

Duncan

 

[Sal Santamaura]

Kodak, including Thomas Mooney, can be 100% trusted to respond to the market. If 10-sheet boxes sell well and 50-sheet boxes don't, count on the 50-sheet boxes being discontinued. It will all be determined by film purchasers, not Kodak.

Thank you Sal, our pro bono corporate defender. I don't know what we'd do without you. We might find ourselves occasionally believing that corporations make poor decisions that aren't in the best interests of consumers or themselves, but its good to keep being reminded otherwise...

I'm the last person who ought be described as a corporate defender. In venues far and wide where discussion of such matters is allowed, including the Soap Box here, I'm as anti-corporatist an individual as you'll ever find.

However, I am a realist.. Corporations are motivated by profit, nothing else. Prices are set by the market, nothing else. The people running corporations can and do err. When that happens, best interests of their employers are not served. Determination of whether they've erred is made by the market, e.g. consumers of large format sheet film.

Reality sucks, but it's real. I'm a pro bono defender of reality.

 

[MattKing]

Ah thanks, I didnt read that far. So obviously Mooney can't be trusted.

They made a decision. They received subsequent feedback from users. They modified their decision to help meet the concerns of the users. And the change happened quickly.
Seems worthy of trust to me.

 

[pentaxuser]

So based on the two Mooney's statements Kodak Alaris changed its mind in as little as 3 weeks. I would have thought that there would not be enough adverse consumer reaction in such a short time frame to justify such a "volte-face".

If 3x10 boxes will now cost about the same as the 50 sheet box and the only justification is the bland statement that this brings B&W in line with colour sheets and with no attempt to justify a massive percentage increase then this certainly will take Kodak sheet-film consumers' breath away.

I wonder what is going on?

pentaxuser

 

[ParkerSmithPhoto]

Corporations are motivated by profit, nothing else. Prices are set by the market, nothing else. The people running corporations can and do err. When that happens, best interests of their employers are not served. Determination of whether they've erred is made by the market, e.g. consumers of large format sheet film.

I wish we could vote for Government the way we vote with our dollars in the marketplace. People used to vote for mom and pop video, then Blockbuster Video, then Netflix. Who knows what's next?

If all of the Kodak users suddenly start buying Ilford, you can be damn sure they will notice and take corrective action. Unlike our government, if they don't, they will cease to exist.

This is something like Michael and Paula when the AZO lines was being trimmed. They said something like "if you want AZO to exist GO AND BUY IT!!"

 

[MattKing]

So based on the two Mooney's statements Kodak Alaris changed its mind in as little as 3 weeks. I would have thought that there would not be enough adverse consumer reaction in such a short time frame to justify such a "volte-face".

I think the new packaging was announced before the date of the first email, but I am not sure how long before.
But it wouldn't surprise me if the response would come that fast.
My guess is that the volume of sales of 4x5 film is quite small, and that there are a relatively few number of users and vendors who account for a significant portion of that volume.
There is also the possibility that many of the users may be members of professional photographic organizations that have the ability to organize responses to things like this.
But mainly, I think that the reality is that this has become a very narrow, niche market, and the big sellers and users have a very direct channel into the considerations of the manufacturers.

 

[Wayne]

They made a decision. They received subsequent feedback from users. They modified their decision to help meet the concerns of the users. And the change happened quickly.
Seems worthy of trust to me.

You are free to interpret it that way. I noted he also used the phrase "for the time being". Sal's reminders notwithstanding, we all know products are on the market "for the time being" so its interesting he made a point of mentioning it.

 

[Luckless]

Clearly the truth is that they don't take user feedback and account for it when deciding what products to put on the market, but instead they just throw darts at a big wall full of ideas - many of which are things like "Just keep going as is", which is why they aren't changing things every single day?

 

[MattKing]

You are free to interpret it that way. I noted he also used the phrase "for the time being". Sal's reminders notwithstanding, we all know products are on the market "for the time being" so its interesting he made a point of mentioning it.

Perhaps you would prefer Kodak Alaris' answers to questions posed as part of the Emulsive newsletter question and answer session:

1. We have no intentions of removing any films from our current portfolio. Let us be very clear here: Film is our heritage and our team loves this industry. We will do everything in our power to keep our current portfolio sustainable for the future!

Here is the link to the full session: http://emulsive.org/articles/commun...kodak-alaris-community-interview-results-time

 

[Harry Stevens]

Well my humble opinion of Kodak B&W is they are making everything so expensive that they hope sales will drop and enable them to discontinue all their B&W photographic products,,,