Kodak yellow HC-110 in round bottle - 2022 - Sino Promise, Made in China

[Eddy Lin]

{Moderator's Note: for discussion about the previous, 2019 version of HC-110, and its differences from what preceded it, you may wish to revue this thread: https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/new-hc-110-developer-not-the-same.176138/}

Hello guys.
I just bought a bottle of Kodak HC-110 in TAIWAN.
My HC-110 is yellow and round bottle.
And it's CAT 660 1777.
I know the old yellow HC-110 which be put in the round bottle, it's CAT 501 0541.
And the new transparency HC-110 is CAT 105 8692.
Does any try the HC-110 CAT 660 1777?

 

[Chunga]

Interesting. So your new bottle is round and yellow? Is it also viscous like the old stuff. Maybe someone who knows can chime but maybe it's a bottle of the European HC-110?

 

[Doremus Scudder]

...Maybe someone who knows can chime but maybe it's a bottle of the European HC-110?

I used to buy HC-110 in Europe that was in a round bottle. The concentrate was weaker than the HC-110 sold in the U.S. and the dilutions, therefore, were different. Check the label and compare dilutions.

Doremus

 

[madNbad]

You have a bottle of the updated formula for HC-110. Kodak released an updated version several years ago and rebranded it HC-110 Professional. Works the same as the old formula, just not as syrupy.

 

[Chunga]

You wanna know the best thing you can do Eddy? Post a pic that bottle. Let's see this mysterious thing.

 

[madNbad]

It’s the same product number as the current HC-110.

 

[Eddy Lin]

Interesting. So your new bottle is round and yellow? Is it also viscous like the old stuff. Maybe someone who knows can chime but maybe it's a bottle of the European HC-110?

It's yellow in round bottle.
It's made in china.

 

[Eddy Lin]

 

[MattKing]

That is the first example I've seen of any Sino-Promise on a label. I'm glad to see it, because they have been having tremendous problems getting product made and shipped, although obviously that particular bottle has only made it to Taiwan, not to Europe or North America.

 

[Chunga]

So that is a different bottle shape than what we have in the US but it does appear to be the same stuff. Although it does look more yellow for how new it is. In my experience the new HC is fairly clear when new but turn yellow with age.

 

[Doremus Scudder]

The dilutions are the same as "classic" HC-110. Use it as you always did. The newer version is supposed to give the same results as the older one. There is debate about whether the shelf-life of the new concentrate is as good as the older version.

Doremus

 

[Alan Johnson]

CAT-660 1777 appears to be the old formula type.

chemistry

kodak.sinopromise.com

Go to "Safety data sheets" > Display >Product Name [enter HC-110] hit enter, go to p5.

 

[250swb]

It's just a bottle of the 'new' formula. If you are worried about it being yellow don't, as soon as you start to use it the concentrate will start to turn a reassuring shade of orange, then brown.

 

[Alan Johnson]

Nope,
If you look at the msds, Cat 660 1777 is identical to Cat 501 0541, which is the old formula type based on a sulfur dioxide adduct of an organic. The "new version" contained potassium sulfite and had a different catalog number.

 

[pentaxuser]

Nope,
If you look at the msds, Cat 660 1777 is identical to Cat 501 0541, which is the old formula type based on a sulfur dioxide adduct of an organic. The "new version" contained potassium sulfite and had a different catalog number.

It's not stuff I use but I am always interested in what differences/improvements the change above has made.

Any thoughts?

P.S. Open to others who know a lot about photographic chemistry to contribute if they choose to do so

Thanks

pentaxuser

 

[MattKing]

The older version containing a sulfur dioxide adduct of an organic was a lot more difficult (and expensive) to make, but that ingredient was most likely what its legendary longevity could be attributed to.

 

[pentaxuser]

The older version containing a sulfur dioxide adduct of an organic was a lot more difficult (and expensive) to make, but that ingredient was most likely what its legendary longevity could be attributed to.

Thanks Matt, that makes sense but as a result has SinoPromise ended up with a developer that is effectively identical to Ilfotec HC so now can only compete on price?


pentaxuser

 

[MattKing]

Thanks Matt, that makes sense but as a result has SinoPromise ended up with a developer that is effectively identical to Ilfotec HC so now can only compete on price?


pentaxuser

I never thought HC-110 was effectively identical to Ilfotec HC before, so I would be surprised if it is now .
The real result is that there is again a source for a developer incorporating a sulfur dioxide adduct of an organic that doesn't depend on Tetenal manufacturing it in Germany.
Two very disparate potential sources is better than one potential source.

 

[pentaxuser]

I never thought HC-110 was effectively identical to Ilfotec HC before, so I would be surprised if it is now .
The real result is that there is again a source for a developer incorporating a sulfur dioxide adduct of an organic that doesn't depend on Tetenal manufacturing it in Germany.
Two very disparate potential sources is better than one potential source.

I am confused , Matt. Isn't Alan saying that the new SinoPromise HC110 is based on a new ingredient as follows:
"Nope,
If you look at the msds, Cat 660 1777 is identical to Cat 501 0541, which is the old formula type based on a sulfur dioxide adduct of an organic. The "new version" contained potassium sulfite and had a different catalog number."

However you seem to be saying that there is again a source for the older sulfur dioxide adduct of an organic as folows:

"There are now two different sources, one of which doesn't depend on Tetenal, So does the new HC110 from SinoPromise now use the same sulfur dioxide as before? If so where does the change to potassium sulfite that Alan mentions come from and has HC110's legendary longevity been restored with this source of sulfur dioxide?

Thanks

pentaxuser

 

[Jordanpereira1]

I already tried this one, no worries everything works

 

[Alan Johnson]

I am confused , Matt. Isn't Alan saying that the new SinoPromise HC110 is based on a new ingredient as follows:
"Nope,
If you look at the msds, Cat 660 1777 is identical to Cat 501 0541, which is the old formula type based on a sulfur dioxide adduct of an organic. The "new version" contained potassium sulfite and had a different catalog number."

However you seem to be saying that there is again a source for the older sulfur dioxide adduct of an organic as folows:

"There are now two different sources, one of which doesn't depend on Tetenal, So does the new HC110 from SinoPromise now use the same sulfur dioxide as before? If so where does the change to potassium sulfite that Alan mentions come from and has HC110's legendary longevity been restored with this source of sulfur dioxide?

Thanks

pentaxuser

The bottle that is the subject of this thread with ingredients Cat 660 1777 has the same formula as the old long life version.
The long life of the old version was often attributed to it being water-free. Cat 660 1777 would presumably restore the legendary longevity but we don't know yet where it is to be distributed or where it is made.
This was deduced from the relevant msds, I don't have any insider knowlege.

 

[MattKing]

What Alan said.
I just hope that Sino Promise didn't merely re-publish an earlier MSDS with their name on it, and get the wrong one!
We probably need to start referring to three versions of HC-110: pre-2019 version; 2019-2021 version and 2022 - version!

 

[markjwyatt]

Here is some "old old" (?) stuff I bought in 2019. Made in Germany. Looks like it might be darker in color, but that could be bottle color also (looks similar to when I bought it).

I see "sulfur dioxide" explicitly on my label, but not the Sino Products label above. Different companies may label differently.

 

[pentaxuser]

What Alan said.
I just hope that Sino Promise didn't merely re-publish an earlier MSDS with their name on it, and get the wrong one!
We probably need to start referring to three versions of HC-110: pre-2019 version; 2019-2021 version and 2022 - version!

So just to be clear. SinoPromise has obtained the necessary sulfur dioxide and given that this was the ingredient that was responsible for HC110's legendary longevity we are in effect back to the original HC110 ?

pentaxuser

 

[MattKing]

No.
The process to make the old, old HC-110 was very specialized and relatively difficult and expensive to do - the creation of a sulfur dioxide adduct to the organic.
The Made in Germany version that markjwyatt shows - the old, old version - was made for Kodak/Kodak Alaris in Germany (most likely by Tetenal).
After Tetenal got into serious financial difficulties, Kodak Alaris attempted to move a lot of its black and white photo chemistry manufacturing to US makers, but they couldn't or wouldn't employ a method that involved creation of a sulfur dioxide adduct to the organic.
Then (July 2020) Kodak Alaris sold the photochemical business to Sino Promise Holdings - just in time for the world to be thrown into disarray by Covid 19.
Now it looks like Sino Promise Holdings is having new HC-110 made, in China, using a process at least similar to the old, old HC-110 in that once again employs a method that involves creation of a sulfur dioxide adduct to the organic.