Kodak to Sell Kodak Park

[StoneNYC]

Maybe I'll sell the whole property to Dave Lyga. He could make the mortgage for less that the rent on an efficiency apartment in some place like Philadelphia. Hey Stone--you want 18 beautiful acres of hardwoods, pines, and sweetgums and a designer log cabin? You couldn't buy 3 blades of grass off somebody's property in Connecticut for what you could have the whole kit and kaboodle for here.
I'll even throw in a genuine Merry Tiller and a DR Mower. And I'll let you have a 12 gauge New England Firearms single-shot for the varmints.
I'll take the photo gear and the RC planes.

Sure I'll trade you for my 2 family house... It's still worth about $100,000 right now and just needs a little remodeling...

 

[Tom1956]

Bad 8x10 paper negative shot on a dreary day of a beautiful Bob Timberlake 16 year old cabin. As for moving up north, I don't think so. Northerners move down here every day, but when is the last time you heard of it happening in reverse? You people freeze your keisters off up there.

 

[KennyMark]

Sure I'll trade you for my 2 family house... It's still worth about $100,000 right now and just needs a little remodeling...

Wow, that could be from my collection. It instantly brought the smell back.

 

[AgX]

In the US a company can write off lease payments at 100% on the taxes. Therefore it is often a wise business decision to lease rather than buy. I do not know the tax laws in England, but I would think that they would be the same in this respect.

I do not know about an industrial plant over here that was located on ground not owned by the company.

(Recently in the context of chemical "parks" originating from coherent plants that may have changed though.)

 

[railwayman3]

To properly "install" coating equipment the machines must be anchored to the ground in such way that passing traffic does not cause defects in the coatings. Also, the machines must be carefully aligned to prevent kinks. So, moving is not the problem. It is down time and alignment which up the expense of any move.

If Ilford moves (and I did not mean to imply that in my post in any way) it will be very costly in terms of time and money. Most of you do not realize this. It is similar to a chip production area. Moves cause defects.

PE

Well, Ilford/Harman are no fools, and the public documents indicate that they are backing the plans for redevelopment of the Mobberley site, which include a new factory for them. (The location is on a corner of the current site, already occupied by one of their buildings.) I'm sure that they will have done their homework on all of the implications.

Don't forget that these are the guys who routinely coat film, paper, inkjet, etc., on one machine, which you have implied Kodak find difficult ?

The UK ain't the US, and Ilford ain't Kodak (thankfully ) )

 

[StoneNYC]

Bad 8x10 paper negative shot on a dreary day of a beautiful Bob Timberlake 16 year old cabin. As for moving up north, I don't think so. Northerners move down here every day, but when is the last time you heard of it happening in reverse? You people freeze your keisters off up there.View attachment 85187

Ok I accept let's trade

 

[StoneNYC]

Wow, that could be from my collection. It instantly brought the smell back.

Yea I had to wash everything it was stinky...

No one was hurt and nothing important was lost. So all is well in my world despite, and I got some cool images at least.

 

[Rudeofus]

If the biggest problem with moving of coating machines is the resulting downtime of these machines, then what is the problem? It's not like they need these machines spinning 24/7 these days ...

 

[StoneNYC]

If the biggest problem with moving of coating machines is the resulting downtime of these machines, then what is the problem? It's not like they need these machines spinning 24/7 these days ...

Down time could be a year and the waste of testing after to ensure and correct issues and no emulsion problems, etc... It's costly... Storing the excess film before shut down to ensure a supply while down.. Etc

 

[Terrence Brennan]

B-17 & B-29

BTW--I've got nothing but respect for Boeing. Any company that have come up with the B-17 and B-29 at that time, with that technology was genius.

Zowie! Sounds like I might have found a fellow history buff!

 

[pentaxuser]

Didn't Ilford successfully move production to Mobberley, Cheshire, from somewhere in London( Ilford?) in the early 1980s?

pentaxuser

 

[railwayman3]

Down time could be a year and the waste of testing after to ensure and correct issues and no emulsion problems, etc... It's costly... Storing the excess film before shut down to ensure a supply while down.. Etc

Where do you get that figure of "a year" from? And, with more than one line available, production doesn't have to shut down completely ? Furthermore, the move to a new factory would be a couple of hundred yards, not across a continent ?

 

[BrianShaw]

But isn't moving a factory a couple of hundred yards still a major endeavor... just less time/space to transit?

 

[railwayman3]

But isn't moving a factory a couple of hundred yards still a major endeavor... just less time/space to transit?

I had second thoughts (being, I hope, an English gentleman) that my original comment was a bit rude....

Anyway, I'm sure that we Brits can move some machinery a couple of hundred yards, if you guys over there can put a man on the moon ? (Err...you really did do that, didn't you ? )

 

[BrianShaw]

I'm not sure about going to the moon. I watched it on TV every time we allegedly went and it seemed real enough to me.

But moving factories of precision stuff is a major endeavor whether moving intercontentially or just a few hundred yards. Sure it can be done, but there is time required and risks. I know that in the US Defense sector industries this is happening more often due to consolidations and cost-cutting. I'll bet British Defense (and others) too experience this need... as well as many commercial sectors. Distance can be one of the lesser factors when considering difficulty. It is never easy, but it can be a necessity and certainly can be accomplished. It's much easier to re-locate pencil-pushers, though.

p.s. I certainly consider yoruself a gentleman and though your comment was quite witty.

 

[fotch]

In the US a company can write off lease payments at 100% on the taxes. Therefore it is often a wise business decision to lease rather than buy. I do not know the tax laws in England, but I would think that they would be the same in this respect.

Instead of firing off a posting criticizing a company, that you do some due diligence for a change. A little research you do you a great deal of good.

No disrespect toward StoneNYC however, am I the only one that does not take his business advise seriously?

 

[omaha]

FWIW (as someone who has owned an independent business for over 20 years)...

The question of "lease" vs "buy" is complex and has everything to do with tax law and respective financing options and obsolescence risk and a bunch of other things. The idea that there is one "right" answer is, well, wrong. It all depends.

 

[AgX]

Didn't Ilford successfully move production to Mobberley, Cheshire, from somewhere in London( Ilford?) in the early 1980s?

Agfa's consumer film coating line had been dismantled and moved after the AgfaPhoto demise to another town and built up again.

 

[StoneNYC]

No disrespect toward StoneNYC however, am I the only one that does not take his business advise seriously?

I don't even take my business advice seriously I mean, if I hadn't listed to myself I might not have invested in property it taken any risks in life, then where would I be?

Anyway, a wise man once told me (might have been Donald Trump, or someone else I can't recall...) that a wise man will only take advice from someone who is already more successful at the thing he is trying to accomplish than he is...

So unless the person speaking has done what you wish to do, AND was successful at it, you really shouldn't listen to them...

So basically almost no one here should really be paid any serious attention when it comes to the affairs of Kodak... Or Ilford, or heck successfully producing a salable photo... :munch:

 

[Tom1956]

You want to take your doubts to Buzz Aldrin about whether they went to the moon? I realize he's on towards 90 now, but he'll be glad to give yo a bust in the chops.

 

[Photo Engineer]

OK, there are a couple of misunderstandings here I think.

In today's market, it is the move that hurts and it hurts in 2 ways. First is the move itself into a new facility. But second is the down time that takes place during the move. If Ilford (as an example) were to move, they would have to have a rather big backlog of precoated material to tide them over, or we would see products vanish during the move. But, these products have expiration dates. So there is the dilemma.

The second problem is that paper and film can be coated on the same machine, but there is cleanup time after every paper run due to dust. And so you cannot just coat paper and then film. You have to have a costly down time and cleanup party before film coating starts up again. Thus you have a complex schedule that allows for one or the other with cleanup in-between.

Add to that that tensioning must be adjusted for film types and paper. Estar, Acetate and RC each run at a different tension and pressure on the air bearings (at KP). IDK how they run at Ilford.

Just some comments in reply to posts here.

PE

 

[Tom1956]

Have Kodak Park categorized as a "historical district" so it can stay right where it is as a protected species.

 

[StoneNYC]

Have Kodak Park categorized as a "historical district" so it can stay right where it is as a protected species.

This might prevent future improvements to film production, as the old ways of doing it would mean not being able to add newer technological machinery to the building, not such a good idea in practice.

 

[StoneNYC]

OK, there are a couple of misunderstandings here I think.

In today's market, it is the move that hurts and it hurts in 2 ways. First is the move itself into a new facility. But second is the down time that takes place during the move. If Ilford (as an example) were to move, they would have to have a rather big backlog of precoated material to tide them over, or we would see products vanish during the move. But, these products have expiration dates. So there is the dilemma.

The second problem is that paper and film can be coated on the same machine, but there is cleanup time after every paper run due to dust. And so you cannot just coat paper and then film. You have to have a costly down time and cleanup party before film coating starts up again. Thus you have a complex schedule that allows for one or the other with cleanup in-between.

Add to that that tensioning must be adjusted for film types and paper. Estar, Acetate and RC each run at a different tension and pressure on the air bearings (at KP). IDK how they run at Ilford.

Just some comments in reply to posts here.

PE

:munch:

 

[Tom1956]

This might prevent future improvements to film production, as the old ways of doing it would mean not being able to add newer technological machinery to the building, not such a good idea in practice.

What future developments? Kodak film can't be made any better. It's perfect. That's like talking about anvil technology on ways to make a higher quality anvil. It is what it is and doesn't get any better than that. They can make Kodak film just like they're doing till the rapture, or the cows come home, whichever is first.