Kodak to Sell Kodak Park

[pbromaghin]

I especially learned a lot by failing at it... Lol

I think Harmon, like a lot of businesses, have no desire to learn in this way.

 

[eddie]

I didn't say I was good at, as I now have NO properties... But I know stuff ... I especially learned a lot by failing at it... Lol

I'd advise them not to take your advice...

 

[railwayman3]

All I can say about ilford is they are foolish to not own the properly, too costly to move all that equipment.

As far as cleanup, my grandfathers estate was 2 hour see and a dry cleaners building, he's been gone for almost 20 years and we are STILL cleaning up the perk (Perchlorethylene) ....

The property lot is only about 1600 square feet...

We've spent well over 1,000,000 to clean it up (we being the estate money).

Good luck to them...

A few minutes on Google will show that there is a viable plan in progress at the present time by the owners of the property at Mobberley to redevelop the site where Harman Technology is presently situated ; this is intended to put residential development on the presently unused parts, with Harman production moving into a smaller purpose-built unit. All there on public websites. Don't underestimate UK companies and business people.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I didn't say I was good at, as I now have NO properties... But I know stuff ... I especially learned a lot by failing at it... Lol

I think Harmon, like a lot of businesses, have no desire to learn in this way.

Even better have Stone give us financial and tax advice and we will do the opposite. We will quickly become Millionaires!

 

[pentaxuser]

Stone, selling off to some sucker, creating a shell, loop holes etc This really is getting close to Gordon. Was he the one responsible for gas being more expensive in NY and creaming the extra profits by ensuring that no petrol/gas tankers are allowed? I recall someone saying that petrol/gas tankers aren't allowed in NY so petrol is more expensive. Sounds like a Gordon trick Never give the suckers an even break

In the words of the famous U.K. group "10cc"'s song about Wall Street" You've got to stay cool on Wall Street when your index is low, Dow-Jones ain't got time for the bums"

Actually this was many years before Gordon emerged so it would appear that we are the villains and Hollywood's sentiments are fully justified.

We are not as pleasant as I thought. I live in a small, sleepy rural market town in deepest Northamptonshire but even here there are no longer any signs of the "Five families" that once ran the place

pentaxuser

 

[omaha]

This is a little off topic, but this thread seems as good a place as any to ask. I hope PhotoEngineer or others with deep industry insight can offer a comment.

It seems that the world of B&W has stabilized. From what I've read here and there, Ilford is making money, selling into a market that is a tiny fraction of its former self. They've managed, it would seem, to properly size their operation for the reality of what sales can be expected, and its working. Good for them.

My question is whether such a thing is even theoretically possible with color film. What I mean is that, suppose worldwide demand for (to pick an example) Ektar 100 is "X" units per year going forward. And lets even suppose that that demand level is stable or maybe even growing a bit (but still a shadow of what it was 15 years ago). Is it possible, in theory, to make Ektar at the volume levels indicated by current demand and make money doing it? Today, the market price for 120 is right at $5 per roll. So, what's the plant getting out of that? $2 or so? Can you make Ektar profitably at those prices and today's volumes, or are there certain minimum volume requirements necessary to get the economies of scale in place, and without them the pricing would have to be dramatically higher?

As an aside, I could see paying maybe up to $10 per roll, but above that, I'd really have to think about it.

What about quality? Are there similar considerations of minimum required volumes in order to achieve the quality and consistency standards we've come to enjoy?

I wish I knew what these numbers look like. How many rolls of Ektar 120 will be sold in 2014? I think about that, and then think that if the number is less than, say, 10 million, that makes film production a really, really tiny business. I mean, 10 million units at a loading dock price of $2 ea is only $20 million gross revenue per year to the plant. So I wonder if my 10 million estimate is wrong, but intuitively, I can't imagine sales being that high. Maybe I underestimate the market. Who knows.

Anyway, if that is in the ballpark of the actual demand, then you could have a nice (little) business going if you sold $20 million per year against a materials and direct labor cost of $1 per roll, leaving you $10 million for administration and advertising and debt service and all the rest.

But like I said, I have no idea if that guesstimate of the market is anywhere near reality, just as I have no idea if it would be even theoretically possible to produce a quality product at those volume levels.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Here is a question for you gurus. What happens if film sales continue as-is or grow, but nevertheless the value of the property becomes greater than the value of the product being manufactured on the property? Now, with a long term lease you are safe, but eventually, things catch up with you.

Yep, they catch up and you find that your plant is being sold for the ground it sits on. Then, a new condo arises there and your plant is no more.

This, BTW, was a small but real factor in the demise of EFKE I have been told.

PE

 

[Prof_Pixel]

Yep, they catch up and you find that your plant is being sold for the ground it sits on. Then, a new condo arises there and your plant is no more.

Despite the name 'Park', I doubt anyone would want to build condos there.

 

[Photo Engineer]

In this case, PARK is KRAP backwards.

PE

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

In this case, PARK is KRAP backwards.

Nicely played...

Ken

 

[railwayman3]

Here is a question for you gurus. What happens if film sales continue as-is or grow, but nevertheless the value of the property becomes greater than the value of the product being manufactured on the property? Now, with a long term lease you are safe, but eventually, things catch up with you.

Yep, they catch up and you find that your plant is being sold for the ground it sits on. Then, a new condo arises there and your plant is no more.

This, BTW, was a small but real factor in the demise of EFKE I have been told.

PE

A large area of the property where the Ilford factory stands is empty and it's in a prime and expensive residential area. The development plans, all currently in the public domain and on the web, use the larger part of the site for quality residences, and provide a new small purpose-built factory for Ilford on the remainder. Presumably much more economical and suitable for them than the large 1960's buildings. (And you could almost carry most of the smaller equipment across the park
to the new factory, so no massive moving logistics or costs. )

 

[Sirius Glass]

In this case, PARK is KRAP backwards.

PE

Nicely played...

Ken

Wow Ken took the words out of my mouth!

 

[Michael W]

Here is a question for you gurus. What happens if film sales continue as-is or grow, but nevertheless the value of the property becomes greater than the value of the product being manufactured on the property? Now, with a long term lease you are safe, but eventually, things catch up with you.

Yep, they catch up and you find that your plant is being sold for the ground it sits on. Then, a new condo arises there and your plant is no more.

This, BTW, was a small but real factor in the demise of EFKE I have been told.

PE

That's what happened to Forte in Hungary.

 

[Ken Nadvornick]

A large area of the property where the Ilford factory stands is empty and it's in a prime and expensive residential area. The development plans, all currently in the public domain and on the web, use the larger part of the site for quality residences, and provide a new small purpose-built factory for Ilford on the remainder. Presumably much more economical and suitable for them than the large 1960's buildings. (And you could almost carry most of the smaller equipment across the park
to the new factory, so no massive moving logistics or costs. )

Hope they remember to leave sufficient room for color...

:w00t:

Ken

 

[Photo Engineer]

To properly "install" coating equipment the machines must be anchored to the ground in such way that passing traffic does not cause defects in the coatings. Also, the machines must be carefully aligned to prevent kinks. So, moving is not the problem. It is down time and alignment which up the expense of any move.

If Ilford moves (and I did not mean to imply that in my post in any way) it will be very costly in terms of time and money. Most of you do not realize this. It is similar to a chip production area. Moves cause defects.

PE

 

[pbromaghin]

In the 1980s I worked for Sperry Univac. Across the field there was a brand new chip manufacturing plant. The whole building floated on bags of air. Still, the freeways and the airport caused too much shake and not a single chip was ever made there. The air spaces were filled in with concrete and the building sold for office space.

 

[RattyMouse]

To properly "install" coating equipment the machines must be anchored to the ground in such way that passing traffic does not cause defects in the coatings. Also, the machines must be carefully aligned to prevent kinks. So, moving is not the problem. It is down time and alignment which up the expense of any move.

If Ilford moves (and I did not mean to imply that in my post in any way) it will be very costly in terms of time and money. Most of you do not realize this. It is similar to a chip production area. Moves cause defects.

PE

Entire US factories have been dismantled and shipped to China. Factories with very expensive and sensitive equipment capable of machining parts to micron levels of tolerance. Once re-assembled, calibration is necessary but is easily done.

 

[StoneNYC]

Even better have Stone give us financial and tax advice and we will do the opposite. We will quickly become Millionaires!

Haha

 

[lxdude]

Entire US factories have been dismantled and shipped to China. Factories with very expensive and sensitive equipment capable of machining parts to micron levels of tolerance. Once re-assembled, calibration is necessary but is easily done.

I disagree with the "easily" part of that statement. I've been involved in a couple of moves, and they were no picnic.

 

[StoneNYC]

Here is a question for you gurus. What happens if film sales continue as-is or grow, but nevertheless the value of the property becomes greater than the value of the product being manufactured on the property? Now, with a long term lease you are safe, but eventually, things catch up with you.

Yep, they catch up and you find that your plant is being sold for the ground it sits on. Then, a new condo arises there and your plant is no more.

This, BTW, was a small but real factor in the demise of EFKE I have been told.

PE

To properly "install" coating equipment the machines must be anchored to the ground in such way that passing traffic does not cause defects in the coatings. Also, the machines must be carefully aligned to prevent kinks. So, moving is not the problem. It is down time and alignment which up the expense of any move.

If Ilford moves (and I did not mean to imply that in my post in any way) it will be very costly in terms of time and money. Most of you do not realize this. It is similar to a chip production area. Moves cause defects.

PE

This what I was talking about...

 

[Tom1956]

If I wasn't struggling just to pay the mortgage, I'd buy the dadgum place

 

[RattyMouse]

I disagree with the "easily" part of that statement. I've been involved in a couple of moves, and they were no picnic.

Easy in that it is a given that it can be done. Implementation is always a challenge but there is never any doubt that success is coming. I have never, ever heard of anyone giving up on a technology transfer.

 

[StoneNYC]

If I wasn't struggling just to pay the mortgage, I'd buy the dadgum place

You've got a few acres, sell a few!

 

[Tom1956]

Maybe I'll sell the whole property to Dave Lyga. He could make the mortgage for less that the rent on an efficiency apartment in some place like Philadelphia. Hey Stone--you want 18 beautiful acres of hardwoods, pines, and sweetgums and a designer log cabin? You couldn't buy 3 blades of grass off somebody's property in Connecticut for what you could have the whole kit and kaboodle for here.
I'll even throw in a genuine Merry Tiller and a DR Mower. And I'll let you have a 12 gauge New England Firearms single-shot for the varmints.
I'll take the photo gear and the RC planes.

 

[lxdude]

Easy in that it is a given that it can be done. Implementation is always a challenge but there is never any doubt that success is coming. I have never, ever heard of anyone giving up on a technology transfer.

Kodak gave up on moving Kodachrome 25 to another building at Kodak Park, from what I've heard here.