Kodak Reintroduces Ektachrome.

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Lachlan Young

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not so sure about that..
do the people who work at kodak or other people with professional motives dump their chemistry down the drain ?
don't think so they probably had disposal protocols, although kodak was one of the biggest polluters in the USA for years, so maybe ?
mini labs get fined and arrested if they do that ... but whatever .. i guess some people don't follow laws when it suits
them not to follow them because they think they are dumb ..
oh well, takes all types to make the world go round i suppose. im happy i don't eat food out of your garden or play in your lawn..
one person used to post online here that selenium toner was non toxic as well.
glad i never ate at her house either !

btw
Materials Safety DataSheets from freestyle for their E6 kits
https://www.freestylephoto.biz/static/pdf/msds/arista/AristaE6.pdf

for every chemical included says this:

13. DISPOSAL CONSIDERATIONS13.1 Waste treatment methods

Product

Preferred options for disposal are to send to licensed reclaimers, or to permitted incinerators. Any disposal practice must be in compliance with federal, state, and local regulations.

ive suggested nothing different than what freestyle and probably other chem makers who make E6
say to do ...

The biggest problem is from the silver in the bleach & fix & its potent biocidal nature. You really don't want that getting into water treatment plants in industrial quantities.

You're at far more risk to yourself if you dabble in wet plate (many formulae are laden with cadmium salts etc) or any dichromated colloid based process without appropriate protective equipment - and as for washing dichromates down the drain... Traditional BW reversal uses acidified dichromate bleaches, but even that can be worked around and ECN-2 uses sulphuric acid at a pH of 2 as a stop bath, but that's a process intended for industrial process machinery, not amateur home users.
 

Photo Engineer

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I'm glad there are so many expert chemists here that can tell me how toxic a given chemical is. One such expert has claimed that EDTA is very toxic, but it is injected as a counter to heavy metal poisoning. It and the metal are safely eliminated from the body. Also, Hypo is used as an antidote for Cyanide poisoning. And yet, dumping it down the drain is forbidden? Well, hair dye is really akin to a Kodachrome developer. There is a CD4 analog and a Magenta coupler analog in there to dye hair for a red-brown look. Drain cleaners are strong chemicals. Some are pure Sulfuric Acid and some are strong alkali or contain Phosphates.

Dumping down a drain is at the "whim" of the locale in which you live. My usage at its peak was so small, I doubt that anyone could even detect any effluent, but the rules here are not really that strong. The Kodak effluent was another matter. The effluent contained significant Silver ion and Cadmium ion, with the latter being far worse than the former. Kodak eliminated most all of that in the late '60s.

PE
 

warden

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And all that beauty goes to waste unless you print them...

Goes to waste? Not at all. I receive no joy holding up a negative to the light, but colorful slides, yes. Printing is good, sure, but certainly not a requirement. I make bookmarks from 6x7 slides and give them as gifts. Those that receive them have no means of scanning or printing them, and yet they love them as they are, one-off works of art that can be held to the light like little stained glass windows.
 

Lachlan Young

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I'm glad there are so many expert chemists here that can tell me how toxic a given chemical is. One such expert has claimed that EDTA is very toxic, but it is injected as a counter to heavy metal poisoning. It and the metal are safely eliminated from the body. Also, Hypo is used as an antidote for Cyanide poisoning. And yet, dumping it down the drain is forbidden? Well, hair dye is really akin to a Kodachrome developer. There is a CD4 analog and a Magenta coupler analog in there to dye hair for a red-brown look. Drain cleaners are strong chemicals. Some are pure Sulfuric Acid and some are strong alkali or contain Phosphates.

Dumping down a drain is at the "whim" of the locale in which you live. My usage at its peak was so small, I doubt that anyone could even detect any effluent, but the rules here are not really that strong. The Kodak effluent was another matter. The effluent contained significant Silver ion and Cadmium ion, with the latter being far worse than the former. Kodak eliminated most all of that in the late '60s.

PE

Absolutely agree with this! I've lost count of the number of times I've heard 'colour chemistry is really toxic, so I work with wetplate/ various alternative processes' and similar nonsense...
 

RattyMouse

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Goes to waste? Not at all. I receive no joy holding up a negative to the light, but colorful slides, yes. Printing is good, sure, but certainly not a requirement. I make bookmarks from 6x7 slides and give them as gifts. Those that receive them have no means of scanning or printing them, and yet they love them as they are, one-off works of art that can be held to the light like little stained glass windows.

What a nice idea.
 

Nzoomed

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It used to be known for superb greens, green separation and even cleaner shadows than Provia100f. This is what I am looking for, you're right in that a retro film will be of very little interest outside of the lomo crowd. I really hope they don't go down that path.
Are you kidding? I would love a retro film! Thats the whole point of me going back to film in the first place!
 

Sirius Glass

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I'm glad there are so many expert chemists here that can tell me how toxic a given chemical is. One such expert has claimed that EDTA is very toxic, but it is injected as a counter to heavy metal poisoning. It and the metal are safely eliminated from the body. Also, Hypo is used as an antidote for Cyanide poisoning. And yet, dumping it down the drain is forbidden? Well, hair dye is really akin to a Kodachrome developer. There is a CD4 analog and a Magenta coupler analog in there to dye hair for a red-brown look. Drain cleaners are strong chemicals. Some are pure Sulfuric Acid and some are strong alkali or contain Phosphates.

Dumping down a drain is at the "whim" of the locale in which you live. My usage at its peak was so small, I doubt that anyone could even detect any effluent, but the rules here are not really that strong. The Kodak effluent was another matter. The effluent contained significant Silver ion and Cadmium ion, with the latter being far worse than the former. Kodak eliminated most all of that in the late '60s.

PE

Yes, non-degreed and non-chemically educated self appointed chemical so called experts are a point in the orifice.
 

removed account4

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I'm glad there are so many expert chemists here that can tell me how toxic a given chemical is.
its what freestyle says on the MSDS
i just referred to what they said so take it up with them.
i never said or suggested i was a
chemist or play on on TV or a youtube video
what i said was it might not be legal or a good idea to dump down the drain
and to consult local laws. maybe instead of insulting me
you should contact the people who make local laws
( that's going to be a lot of cities and towns PE ) and
tell them they are all idiots, and how dumping photochemistry
down the drain is perfectly harmless and how they should
focus their efforts on hair dye and
draino.
besides suggesting its probably not a good idea to do
color processing on the kitchen counter and the
the kitchen sink, i said that selenium is harmful, am i a fool
for suggesting that too ? its kind of sad people suggest people act recklessly, really sad.

Yes, non-degreed and non-chemically educated self appointed chemical so called experts are a point in the orifice.
it doesn't take a degree to contact local authorities and ask if it is OK to dump chemistry down the drain.
and when they say no, not really, make sure you tell them the law is stupid and you are going to do it anyways.

too funny...
 
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mshchem

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I'm glad there are so many expert chemists here that can tell me how toxic a given chemical is. One such expert has claimed that EDTA is very toxic, but it is injected as a counter to heavy metal poisoning. It and the metal are safely eliminated from the body. Also, Hypo is used as an antidote for Cyanide poisoning. And yet, dumping it down the drain is forbidden? Well, hair dye is really akin to a Kodachrome developer. There is a CD4 analog and a Magenta coupler analog in there to dye hair for a red-brown look. Drain cleaners are strong chemicals. Some are pure Sulfuric Acid and some are strong alkali or contain Phosphates.

Dumping down a drain is at the "whim" of the locale in which you live. My usage at its peak was so small, I doubt that anyone could even detect any effluent, but the rules here are not really that strong. The Kodak effluent was another matter. The effluent contained significant Silver ion and Cadmium ion, with the latter being far worse than the former. Kodak eliminated most all of that in the late '60s.

PE
Yeah, what he said!
 

cmacd123

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Concerning the mounts, there still are different manufacturers of mounts for hand mouting, but the current problem seems the lack of a manufacturer for mounting machines, maybe the respective mounts too.
If it becomes uneconomical for a lab, small or industrial, to keep their machine going, they will stop offering mounting.
the issue I was told by the lab that stopped offering mounting was that they could no longer Buy the specific plastic mounts that the machine they had was designed to use. another brand would not work with the machine.

fortunately I was able to buy old fashioned Cardboard mounts and find an old slide mounting press that looks like a square cube of metal attached to a big pair of Pliers.
 

iandvaag

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i never said or suggested i was a
chemist

John, I am certain PE's comment was not addressed to you. PE has made similar comments about what the experts have to say regarding EDTA and thiosulfate toxicity in several threads before, for example in this post from 2005. His point, I believe, is that it is not always clear what is toxic. I might offer another example: selenium (Se) and arsenic (As) antagonism. On their own, both are highly toxic, but one can safely ingest stoichiometric quantities of both and they will be co-excreted in the bile duct. There's a number of trials ongoing in Bangladesh administering careful doses of Se, including dietary Se from enriched lentils to counteract As poisoning from contaminated well water. It really works!

Everyone should of course follow local laws.

My point is simply that "toxicity" and "environmental effects" are often neither rigorously defined nor well-understood. Thankfully, I don't have to be the arbiter of what these things mean. Regulations quantify toxicity and environmental impacts by stating how various things should be disposed of on different scales. Clearly it's bad to aquatic systems to dump in significant amounts of silver. But, if your local area doesn't have regulations forbidding the dumping of small quantities of darkroom chemicals down the drain, you probably needn't to be too concerned. Any water treatment plant worth its salt monitors concentrations of metal ions in the discharged water.

Not to be vulgar, but consider the environmental impact of the large quantity of waste material disposed every day: sewerage. Even after sewerage is treated, the organic material has a "biochemical oxygen demand, BOD" (This is to say that it can be oxidized, thereby depleting oxygen in the surface waters that the sewerage is discharged into.) This can have significant harmful effects for fluvial ecosystems, and the BOD of the effluent of any sewerage treatment plant needs to be carefully monitored.

There's a lot of really nasty chemicals out there, but most photographic solutions are not terribly toxic or environmentally hazardous. If one takes precautions and complies with local regulations, normal photographic processing solutions (including E-6) can be used safely without significant detrimental effect to the user or the environment.

Better safe than sorry is generally a good approach. FWIW, I follow local regulations, and furthermore, I don't dump any solutions containing metals (bleaches, fix). I do dump the small number of litres of developer and stop bath I use annually. I practice good lab technique, wear appropriate PPE, and try to avoid toxic and environmentally hazardous chemicals. Personally, I am much more concerned about my environmental impact caused by landfilled waste (which is not very regulated where I live) such as plastic packaging than the photographic chemical solutions I dispose of down the drain (including some of the E-6 process solutions.) But I haven't conducted studies on the effects of waste plastic in the environment, neither do I make the regulations for disposing waste plastic. So, I do what I reasonably can to minimize my impact, and for what trash I do produce, I use the trash can rather than littering. I don't feel compelled that it is my personal responsibility to reform my city's practice of landfilling domestic waste.

I will mention one more thing for those who are concerned with disposing metals: most fogging baths for E-6 contain tin (II) chloride. Of course, you can use fogging by light instead.
 

flavio81

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One such expert has claimed that EDTA is very toxic, but it is injected as a counter to heavy metal poisoning. It and the metal are safely eliminated from the body. Also, Hypo is used as an antidote for Cyanide poisoning. And yet, dumping it down the drain is forbidden?

Way to go, Ron!! What a great post and straight to the point. It's amazing how fear, uncertainty and doubt can mislead people.

So glad we have here an actual PE like you.
 
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But I haven't conducted studies on the effects of waste plastic in the environment, neither do I make the regulations for disposing waste plastic.

Studies? Your work is cut out for you. Go have a look at the effects of rampant plastic the Great Pacific Garbage Patch...
 

removed account4

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John, I am certain PE's comment was not addressed to you.

maybe, that would be nice ... but ,,, i doubt it.... i don't think either of them had 2005 in mind
and over the yearrs people ( besides them ) have been equally as debasing and hostile towards folks who suggested following
local rules + regs... he and mr S.gLass have a history of doing exactly what they did to me and
veiling their comments ... ( besides yours just now, i am the only person in this thread who suggested dumping
E6 chemistry down the drain might not be a good thing to do ... not sure who else they would be talking to/about )
besides this site has a history of a lot of "get off my lawn i can do whatever i want " types .. its really too bad
because people come here for neutral information like " check your local rules and regulations" can't imagine if
someone came here, read some of the BS / NIMBY nonsense people post, it not only makes the site look bad
but people who practice chemical photography look bad too...
 
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iandvaag

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And all that beauty goes to waste unless you print them...
May I introduce you to medium format stereo slides in a backlit viewer? I doubt very much you would think they're a waste :smile:

Studies? Your work is cut out for you. Go have a look at the effects of rampant plastic the Great Pacific Garbage Patch...
Thanks, Poisson. Perhaps I was not very clear with my comments. I am aware of the garbage patch in the North Pacific gyre. I live on the Canadian prairies and although I am sure that some small fraction of plastic does make it to the ocean (shopping bags blowing in the wind, for example), most of it ends up in a landfill just outside of the city. Even if the plastics remain in the landfill, they are still environmental pollutants (offgassing, leaching, not to mention the physical footprint of the bulk of the landfill.) I don't know the fate of the particular offgassed chemicals in the atmosphere, or whether some plastics additives can leach into the surrounding environment, and what effects these might have on soil microfauna, for example. I know that the clay liner is highly impermeable, but I don't know how the runoff water is treated. I doubt that fully comprehensive studies have been done.

I just say this to note that regulations are arbitrary, and I'm not the one who gets to make the judgement call about whether to make regulations limiting the disposal of plastics or of photographic solutions or of anything else for that matter. It is perfectly legal for me to dispose of many tonnes of plastic waste in my domestic trash bin over a year, and there is no disincentive not to do so (apart from my own personal distaste.) I imagine in most other cities in North America this is true (minimal or no regulations limiting plastic in domestic waste streams), although some cities have more strict regulations for dumping used developer solutions down the drain. This seems arbitrary to me. But, arbitrariness is an insufficient reason enough to disobey regulations.

One final word from me on the subject of disposing E6 down the drain to be perfectly clear: I believe you should follow local regulations. And if local regulations allow for dumping “home user quantities” of spent fixer or bleach down the drain, then I think that it’s fine to do so. Yes, silver is quite bad for aquatic organisms. But sometimes, the solution to pollution is dilution. In my city of a quarter million, I’d be highly surprised if there were more than 2 or 3 other people processing E-6 at home. This amount of chemicals diluted by the ~100 000 showers that are taken daily probably reaches homeopathic levels by the time the waste water reaches the plant. If the local regulations say that there isn’t a problem, I’m going to trust them that they have a good monitoring program in place, and will revise the regulations accordingly.

To further complicate things, in many cases, when you dispose of "toxic" chemicals through the "hazardous waste collection day" or similar program, the authorities simply note what is written on the bottle, and then dump it down the drain with enough water such that its concentration does not exceed regulations. When you throw something away, it must go somewhere. There is no "away".

Anyway, I think that my particular comments in this thread have veered sufficiently off-topic that I will withdraw for the time being. Carry on with the discussion of Ektachrome. I, for one, hope for a lower contrast, less saturated slide film. Provia and Velvia already fill the need for contrasty and saturated film. But I predominantly shoot slide film in 120, so I hope that will make its way to market shortly after the introduction in 135 and S8.

I will say, if those test shots are on super 8, they look outstanding! If they are on 135, they are pretty dismal!
 

BMbikerider

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And all that beauty goes to waste unless you print them...

No it doesn't! It is in a frame of whatever size the picture is mounted in and when projected the image is superb. You don't appear to be a fan, how many reversal films have you actually used? There is no need to print them.

I have pictures on my walls which were from transparencies, all that was needed was to scan the original (Nikon LS50 Scanner not a flatbed) and lo...I have a printable image!
 
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aleckurgan

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Sure they've missed their targets...but I can't even imagine how difficult it is to resurrect this film. Unless we get to mid-2019 and there's still no new Ektachrome, I'll be happily waiting and trusting Kodak is working hard to get this stuff released...and not only get it released, but get it released as an excellent product that will push people's desire to shoot slide film to new heights.
If it is so difficult for Kodak to bring back Ektachrome, one can only wonder how long it will take Ferrania to revive their slide film. Or, if we assume that Ektachrome delay is due to Kodak perfecting it, will Ferrania be able to make a quality E6 product at all? And by quality I mean something wall projectable with lifelike colours, good saturation and contrast, not just another Lomo-style film to be posted on Instagram.
 

AgX

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To further complicate things, in many cases, when you dispose of "toxic" chemicals through the "hazardous waste collection day" or similar program, the authorities simply note what is written on the bottle, and then dump it down the drain with enough water such that its concentration does not exceed regulations.
Never heard of such.
 

cmacd123

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Never heard of such.
Yes, we do have "hazardous waste days" where you drive to a depot and the folks with protective gear take the stuff out of the trunk of your car --- after you prove you live in the municipality that is holding the event. Since you are in Europe, I assume you can just take it back to the store or designated depot almost any time.
 

BrianShaw

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Yes, we do have "hazardous waste days" where you drive to a depot and the folks with protective gear take the stuff out of the trunk of your car --- after you prove you live in the municipality that is holding the event. Since you are in Europe, I assume you can just take it back to the store or designated depot almost any time.
(I should have quoted iandvaag regarding disposal but don’t know how to fix that...)

Some of the collected hazmat actually gets recycled. Paint is recycled and used for graffiti abatement. Computers are transferred to precious metal recyclers. Not sure about other stuff though.

We also have firearm events where they are not only turned in with no repercussions... but traded for grocery store gift cards. Those, we are told, get crushed and the metal recycled.
 
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