Kodak price increase

[Agulliver]

Where on earth is Kodak B&W film twice as much as Ilford?

It's more expensive, and in most cases for my tastes offers no compelling reason buy Kodak B&W film....but it's not twice the price of Ilford.

 

[Craig]

Where on earth is Kodak B&W film twice as much as Ilford?

It's more expensive, and in most cases for my tastes offers no compelling reason buy Kodak B&W film....but it's not twice the price of Ilford.

Canada.

Delta 100 in 4x5 $3.28/sheet, TMax 100 4x5 $6.85/sheet. Sorry, Kodak is more than twice the price.

In 120, Delta 100: $10.87, TMax 100: $21.36.

 

[Huss]

Where on earth is Kodak B&W film twice as much as Ilford?

It's more expensive, and in most cases for my tastes offers no compelling reason buy Kodak B&W film....but it's not twice the price of Ilford.

In the US Kodak is 50-60% more expensive than Ilford. Which is why I already don't buy B&W Kodak film. I like it, but I don't like it any more than Ilford. Kodak can keep raising their prices, it does not make any difference to me as they already have priced me out vs their competition.

In Europe, I see fotoimpex charges 9 EUR for HP5, and 11 EUR for Tri-X. So about 20% more expensive for Tri-X.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Sorry if this has already been asked. But why is Ilford HP5 $7.50/roll, while Kodak Tri-X is $12? I use these films as equivalents. Even though I like Kentmere 400 @ $5.

Ilford is apparently making a profit selling HP5, but Kodak cannot with Tri-X at 60% higher price point?

Supply and Demand. Why can Apple make 40% net profit on their phones? Why are their buyers willing to spend so much?

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

It's about comparing like for like - why is Kodak twice the price of Ilford? If milk is $2/litre at one store and $4/litre at another I'd say you'd be crazy to say "support the more expensive store, or you'll cry when they close" No I won't, I'll continue shopping at the cheaper store.

You're not buying milk.

 

[BrianShaw]

You're not buying milk.

True, but the analogy makes sense. Insert any commercially acquired product. All things being equal, why spend more? Often, though, all things are not equal. Comparing Kodak to Ilford probably is not in the realm of equality. Comparing two retailers might be closer to equal.

 

[retina_restoration]

I decided to move entirely to Ilford products last year, after their most recent price increase. I saw the writing on the wall and realized Kodak's films would soon exceed my budget. In March - if the price forecast is accurate, there will be no more Kodak film in my future. $10 a roll of 120 film is the most I will pay.
I can still buy FP4 for under $8 a roll, so you can see why I've opted to buy Ilford, not Kodak. No, FP4 ain't the same as T-Max, but I'm totally happy with FP4, so...

 

[GregY]

I decided to move entirely to Ilford products last year, after their most recent price increase. I saw the writing on the wall and realized Kodak's films would soon exceed my budget. In March - if the price forecast is accurate, there will be no more Kodak film in my future. $10 a roll of 120 film is the most I will pay.
I can still buy FP4 for under $8 a roll, so you can see why I've opted to buy Ilford, not Kodak. No, FP4 ain't the same as T-Max, but I'm totally happy with FP4, so...

FP4+ is one of my very favourite films & the one i would standardize on if required. But I'm really like TMY2 and Tri-X..... & Huss.....if price were really an issue, i'd sell a few cameras.... ;-) . I remember a time when i only owned one M4 and 2 lenses.....but that's long ago....

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

True, but the analogy makes sense. Insert any commercially acquired product. All things being equal, why spend more? Often, though, all things are not equal. Comparing Kodak to Ilford probably is not in the realm of equality. Comparing two retailers might be closer to equal.

Well, as you say things aren't equal. Why would some pay twice as much buying a Audi SUV rather than a Ford? They'll both get you to the supermarket.

Which reminds me of the joke:

So the photo bug goes to the film store to buy a roll of Ektachrome 100 and asks "How much is it?"

The dealer responds, “Well, it’s $15 a roll but we’re all out right now. It’s back ordered.”

So the photo bug leaves the store and goes to another store down the block.

“How much is a roll of Ektachrome and do you have any?”

The second dealer responds, “Oh, it’s $20 a roll and we have loads.”

“$20?” complains the photo bug raising his voice. “The other dealer only charges $15 a roll.”

“Well,” says the second dealer. “When we’re out of Ektachrome, we only charge $10 a roll.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

I decided to move entirely to Ilford products last year, after their most recent price increase. I saw the writing on the wall and realized Kodak's films would soon exceed my budget. In March - if the price forecast is accurate, there will be no more Kodak film in my future. $10 a roll of 120 film is the most I will pay.
I can still buy FP4 for under $8 a roll, so you can see why I've opted to buy Ilford, not Kodak. No, FP4 ain't the same as T-Max, but I'm totally happy with FP4, so...

What happens when Ilford raises their price to $9.25?

 

[MattKing]

In Canada, I wouldn't use milk as a comparison example. The market price is distorted by supply management, and milk has a much different customer base than film.
The high Canadian price of black and white Kodak film is the result of a small market and the effects of B&H et al. There isn't much profit there for the distributors who do business in Canada, so wholesale volumes are low, and prices are high.
If Kodak Alaris used a single, exclusive Canadian distributor for black and white film, instead of the same distributor for colour and black and white, there might be less difference between Ilford and Kodak prices. Ilford's black and white sales are higher though, so no guarantees.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

In Canada, I wouldn't use milk as a comparison example. The market price is distorted by supply management, and milk has a much different customer base than film.
The high Canadian price of black and white Kodak film is the result of a small market and the effects of B&H et al. There isn't much profit there for the distributors who do business in Canada, so wholesale volumes are low, and prices are high.
If Kodak Alaris used a single, exclusive Canadian distributor for black and white film, instead of the same distributor for colour and black and white, there might be less difference between Ilford and Kodak prices. Ilford's black and white sales are higher though, so no guarantees.

Are Canadians more apt to buy British film than American due to your relationship with the King. As an American who always bought American Kodak, thought they were the only film makers in the world, well except for Fuji Velvia 50, a color film, people have preferences due to other things beside price.

 

[brbo]

What happens when Ilford raises their price to $9.25?

Well, they will blame Kodak for that, of course. And rightly so.

Kodak is the market leader and price setter since they still have unrivalled product portfolio. Unfortunatelly, they also have limited converting capabilities. For Kodak it would financially make sense to only sell C-41 and E-6 film since they haven't faced much competition in this segment for a while now. They are still selling BW film to maintain presence in BW and because they would face a HUGE backlash if they stopped selling BW film. But since they can only convert a limited number of rolls of film, it would be utterly stupid to sell 10m rolls of Tri-X at $6 and 20m rolls of Portra at $15 when they can sell 28m of Portra at $15 and 2m rolls of Tri-X at $12.

 

[MattKing]

Are Canadians more apt to buy British film than American due to your relationship with the King.

Only the really old ones ).
There are many, many more Canadians who had a long term relationship with Canadian Kodak/Kodak Canada over the years, than the very few who had a relationship with Ilford. The Canadian subsidiary of Eastman Kodak was one of the largest.
And the black and white film part of Kodak was always tiny in comparison to colour and photofinishing.

 

[retina_restoration]

What happens when Ilford raises their price to $9.25?

As I stated, my price cutoff is $10.

 

[ant!]

Only the really old ones ).

And I live in Québec, so no emotional ties to Kings & Queens here... I guess people just pick what fits for them, brand, film, price...

 

[Huss]

...... & Huss.....if price were really an issue, i'd sell a few cameras.... ;-) . .

Price is an issue because I need to see value. I like HP5 just as much as TriX. So there is no value in paying more for TriX to me.

 

[GregY]

Price is an issue because I need to see value. I like HP5 just as much as TriX. So there is no value in paying more for TriX to me.

Gotcha! For me the value is that i prefer to work from Tri-x or TMY negatives... At least we have a choice. I LOVE FP4+..... but HP5 has always left me indifferent.

 

[BrianShaw]

Well, as you say things aren't equal. Why would some pay twice as much buying a Audi SUV rather than a Ford? They'll both get you to the supermarket.

Which reminds me of the joke:

(Dad joke snipped).

It depends on what one values. Very personal and difficult to criticize with any credibility. Just look at the last couple of posts…

 

[Craig]

Well, as you say things aren't equal. Why would some pay twice as much buying a Audi SUV rather than a Ford? They'll both get you to the supermarket.

The Audi brand isn't percived the same as Ford. If we want to use automotive analogies, would you pay twice as much for a Chev Silverado as a Ford 150, when similarly equipped (or vice versa)? Objectively if we relate it back to film, there isn't much difference in terms of technology between HP5 and Tri-X or Delta and TMax.

 

[GregY]

And I live in Québec, so no emotional ties to Kings & Queens here... I guess people just pick what fits for them, brand, film, price...

I don't think many people think of kings or queens when buying film. I never did wonder either when buying paper from Boespflug & Guillemot (France) or who the prime minister of Hungary was as i ordered my Forte printing paper.....It seems as if we're running out of things to talk about ;-)

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Well, they will blame Kodak for that, of course. And rightly so.

Kodak is the market leader and price setter since they still have unrivalled product portfolio. Unfortunatelly, they also have limited converting capabilities. For Kodak it would financially make sense to only sell C-41 and E-6 film since they haven't faced much competition in this segment for a while now. They are still selling BW film to maintain presence in BW and because they would face a HUGE backlash if they stopped selling BW film. But since they can only convert a limited number of rolls of film, it would be utterly stupid to sell 10m rolls of Tri-X at $6 and 20m rolls of Portra at $15 when they can sell 28m of Portra at $15 and 2m rolls of Tri-X at $12.

Isn't that contradictory. Why shouldn't their prices be higher if they have an unrivalled product portfolio?

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Only the really old ones ).
There are many, many more Canadians who had a long term relationship with Canadian Kodak/Kodak Canada over the years, than the very few who had a relationship with Ilford. The Canadian subsidiary of Eastman Kodak was one of the largest.
And the black and white film part of Kodak was always tiny in comparison to colour and photofinishing.

I think I was in single digits of age when I last shot BW before recently when I took up LF. Once color came out, everyone shot it. Either negative color for prints or slides for projection. I never knew which way I wanted to go but certainly not back to BW.

 

[MattKing]

Isn't that contradictory. Why shouldn't their prices be higher if they have an unrivalled product portfolio?

Because they don't make meaningful money selling one roll of film.
They make meaningful money selling lots of film, one roll at a time.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

And I live in Québec, so no emotional ties to Kings & Queens here... I guess people just pick what fits for them, brand, film, price...

Sorry. I hope I didn't offend you.