Kodak price increase

[Ernst-Jan]

I know it's fashionable among some to assume Fuji want to exit the film market. But it doesn't appear to be so.

If they wanted they didn't ask Harman to coat Acros II and buy Kodak Gold to sell it as Fujicolor.
They just have a weird different company culture

 

[koraks]

They restarted a year or so ago.

This is something we know, or something we assume?

I know it's fashionable among some to assume Fuji want to exit the film market.

I don't know much about fashion, but I'd be very hesitant to assume a commitment on something we have no evidence for.

 

[koraks]

buy Kodak Gold to sell it as Fujicolor

Why go through those lengths if you can just have a manufacturer produce a product and label it as your own? Happens all the time.

 

[Ernst-Jan]

This is something we know, or something we assume?

The same kind of assumption some people have about that Fuji stopped coating. I remember someone online reporting that he/she found fresh C200 in store.

Why go through those lengths if you can just have a manufacturer produce a product and label it as your own? Happens all the time.

If you want to leave a market, why would you put this effort in. I think it's much more work than just giving Kodak a call

 

[brbo]

FYI, FujiFilm 200 sold in EU is still from the batch that was made in USA by Kodak. Just got Fuji 200 from FotoImpex (exp. date 2024/11) and it's clearly from Kodak.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

If I were to use tabular grain film, then I would prefer Delta 100 over HP5+, but I still prefer Tri-X 400 over both.

Why Trix 400 over TriX320?

 

[Sal Santamaura]

If they wanted they didn't ask Harman to coat Acros II...

Unless you have insider knowledge and are likely violating a non-disclosure agreement, you speculate, but don't know, Fuji did that. The only thing outsiders can determine is that HARMAN performed the finishing of Acros II. Fuji might have provided a formula to HARMAN from which the emulsion was made and coated, or it might have shipped emulsion to HARMAN from which the parent rolls were coated, or it might have shipped coated parent rolls to HARMAN which were cut down and finished. Taking Internet allegations/rumors as fact is perilous and best avoided.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Why Trix 400 over TriX320?

Because they are different films. There are many threads on Photrio that go into more information and detail than I care to type.

 

[Agulliver]

Being a Japanese company, Fuji aren't very forthcoming about the inner workings of their factories....but as far as we know, they stopped coating C41 film. When I spoke with Andy Church of Kodak-Alaris, he said that Kodak were "pretty much the only people coating colour film" at that time. Which would also explain the temporary supply of "Fuji Color" film that was actually Kodak Gold 200 in disguise.

Now, the doom merchants pointed to this, and loudly exclaimed that was final proof that Fuji were exiting the film market.

Of course what actually happened was that after a few months, fresh Fuji C200 and Superia 400 "made in Japan" with 2024 and later expiry dates began to appear on shelves.

 

[koraks]

Of course what actually happened was that after a few months, fresh Fuji C200 and Superia 400 "made in Japan" with 2024 and later expiry dates began to appear on shelves.

Just got Fuji 200 from FotoImpex (exp. date 2024/11) and it's clearly from Kodak.

So now what?

Also, what does 'made in Japan' mean? Coated in Japan? Or only confectioned or even packaged in Japan?

I'm not sure why you're so bent on painting people in a bad light who suggest Fuji may have already stopped C41 manufacturing. It's a very reasonable idea to put forward, and it has nothing to do with 'doom'. It's just reflecting on what would be a quite understandable business decision on their part.

Fact is, you don't know if Fuji is still coating C41. You appear to assume they do, and I have a strong feeling this assumption is fueled by hope more than by a critical assessment of available information. Nothing wrong with having hope, of course. By all means, indulge.

 

[MattKing]

As I understand it the recent, made in Japan Fuji C-41 films have gone back to the edge coding that existed before the short term replacement Kodak produced stuff. Which means that the photofinishers who rely on that edge coding for the profiles for their machines would be really disappointed if it was actually the Kodak film stock in disguise.
I guess its possible that Kodak could have incurred the substantial cost of producing emulsions that emulate the Fuji versions, but I think it unlikely.

 

[Huss]

I really like Fuji C200 and Superia 400. A couple of months ago I bought a stash of 400 from mpex.com
They were selling it at $16/3 rolls of 36exp.

 

[Huss]

 

[foc]

My understanding is that the Fuji made in Japan has different printed cartridges to the Fuji with Kodak inside.

See here, Made in Japan is first, Fuji with Kodak inside is second. Note the different text orientation of the printed cassette.

 

[Huss]

My understanding is that the Fuji made in Japan has different printed cartridges to the Fuji with Kodak inside.

See here, Made in Japan is first, Fuji with Kodak inside is second. Note the different text orientation of the printed cassette.

View attachment 330305
View attachment 330306

You pick one depending on whether you want to take portrait or landscape orientation photographs.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

Being a Japanese company, Fuji aren't very forthcoming about the inner workings of their factories....but as far as we know, they stopped coating C41 film. When I spoke with Andy Church of Kodak-Alaris, he said that Kodak were "pretty much the only people coating colour film" at that time. Which would also explain the temporary supply of "Fuji Color" film that was actually Kodak Gold 200 in disguise.

Now, the doom merchants pointed to this, and loudly exclaimed that was final proof that Fuji were exiting the film market.

Of course what actually happened was that after a few months, fresh Fuji C200 and Superia 400 "made in Japan" with 2024 and later expiry dates began to appear on shelves.

I want their Velvia 50 back in 4x5.

 

[cmacd123]

As I understand it the recent, made in Japan Fuji C-41 films have gone back to the edge coding that existed before the short term replacement Kodak produced stuff. Which means that the photofinishers who rely on that edge coding for the profiles for their machines would be really disappointed if it was actually the Kodak film stock in disguise.

the littlebar code beside the edge numbers also contains an code indication the version of the film. It they were to buy in coated film, they could adjust that number (and the bar code on the cassette) to a different number which would alert the photofinishing folks that they might need to use another chanel. In fact they could use the same code as the stock they were buying and ONLY the photofinish folks would be the wiser - and would not be too shocked that the printer would identify the film as "Kodak"

 

[brbo]

Of course what actually happened was that after a few months, fresh Fuji C200 and Superia 400 "made in Japan" with 2024 and later expiry dates began to appear on shelves.

But that's not really what happened...

My Fujifilm 200 has later expiry date and is from Kodak:

I was very happy to finally be able to buy what I thought was now again the old Fuji C200. What I got instead was Fudak Gold 200. Luckily, Fotoimpex has 3 rolls maximum per order for Fuji 200, so not that big of a deal...

It's still a mess for consumers who like to know what they are buying. Maybe Fuji asked Kodak to print longer exp. dates as they expected that it will take them more time to restart production, maybe Fuji is now again converting 200 from older C200 master rolls, I don't know... What we do know is that we won't get any explanation from Fuji.

 

[koraks]

What we do know is that we won't get any explanation from Fuji.

Maybe not yet, and maybe never officially.

maybe Fuji is now again converting 200 from older C200 master rolls

This would surprise me. Going by how they handle their paper business, I don't think they keep around master rolls of color materials for more than a few months. Keep in mind that a master roll represents significant value, and companies like Fuji minimize capital that's stuck in a warehouse somewhere. It seems they're far more likely to ship it out to the sales channels ASAP, where materials may linger on stock depending on market conditions.

 

[brbo]

This would surprise me. Going by how they handle their paper business, I don't think they keep around master rolls of color materials for more than a few months.

Two things. First, something unpredictable could happen between coating and converting that would delay the conversion of the master rolls. Second, there were many reports that last coatings were made many months or even years before discontinuance was announced, mainly because demand was so low that Fuji had plenty of material for years, but couldn't make a new coating run because some key raw materials weren't available anymore. On the other hand, conversion from older master rolls enabled Fuji to switch to new emulsions relatively seamlessly (like dropping 4th layer from Superia X-tra 400, etc.). How much credibility you give to such reports from resident "experts" on everything-Fuji is another matter, or course.

 

[koraks]

I remain skeptical.

But let's allow this thread to meander back to Kodak.

 

[Stephan68]

Prices going up is so normal, they hardly ever go down right? For sure not with something as special as sheet film... inflation is not just transport and all the 500 or so different materials needed to produce film. Water, heat, energy, labor, parts, repair, environmental costs around chemicals and so on...

 

[Sirius Glass]

Prices going up is so normal, they hardly ever go down right? For sure not with something as special as sheet film... inflation is not just transport and all the 500 or so different materials needed to produce film. Water, heat, energy, labor, parts, repair, environmental costs around chemicals and so on...

Welocme to APUG Photrio!!​

 

[Arcadia4]

Maybe not yet, and maybe never officially.



This would surprise me. Going by how they handle their paper business, I don't think they keep around master rolls of color materials for more than a few months. Keep in mind that a master roll represents significant value, and companies like Fuji minimize capital that's stuck in a warehouse somewhere. It seems they're far more likely to ship it out to the sales channels ASAP, where materials may linger on stock depending on market conditions.

Agree, most modern businesses are very cash flow focussed, although they also aim to keep all products in stock for sale. Where the cold stored roll 'stories' may be partially true if exaggerated is what we know about how the production process works from Ilford and Kodak which are a bit more open about their operations, but there is not reason to assume fujifilm is particularly different - film coating runs occur intermittently as a batch of a particular product , storing the resultant master rolls and then converting them over a period of time, before the next run is required of that product. In fujifilms case instax is possibly using up more of the coater time, so film runs may be scheduled to fit in

Whilst they are high value, its cheaper to store master rolls than fully converted final product, and the stored master rolls can be pulled down for conversion quite quickly. A product only 'ceases' production when a decision is made not to re-coat another batch - Pro400h being an example, which didnt seem a planned decision, rather one to catch at least some of the company by surprise.

In the case of Fujifilm 200, the renaming (and expenditure on a new packaging) does allow dual sourcing supply depending on demand, with the benefit of a shorter distribution chain in the US.

 

[cmacd123]

Whilst they are high value, its cheaper to store master rolls than fully converted final product, and the stored master rolls can be pulled down for conversion quite quickly.

I will say, I bought a LOT of the Legacy Pro 400 while it was available CHEEP. I quite liked it and I bid buy some of the Neopan 400 from several stores. The Neopan was marked with a emulsion number a couple of digits higher then the Legacy Pro, (but in the same numerical range) and the second availability of Legacy pro was of a different number than the first. {Freestyle sold out and said they would try to get a second batch} I infered that the Legacy pro was converted from stock in the warehouse, (master rolls or Pancakes) and the Neopan Branded film was from a later batch. If Freestyle had not had Legacy Pro made up for them, it might have not been sold.

note that the legacy pro was edge printed without a brand name and with marking simalar to Most of Fuji's private label film sold over the years. while the Fuji branded Neopan was edge printed FUJI. If the Film had of been converted already, (and thus already labeled Fuji Neopan) the folks at Fuji may not have been willing to sell it considering that the date would have had to be shorter.