Kodak planning to replace remjet on vision 3 films

[Spektrum]

I confirm that I received my parcel from FILMRISS today.

So these guys are legit.

 

[aw614]

My order from Reflx lab made it from China to the US this afternoon. Hopefully it doesn't have to sit around in LA for too long before they get moving towards me again.

I got mine earlier this week from China which came to me in Florida. Bought 3 rolls.

 

[BHuij]

My couple rolls of 250D from Reflx lab arrived yesterday. I haven't shot them yet, but they do look as I would expect. The cassette is labeled as "320D AHU" I assume because you'd get a small speed bump developing in C-41. I intend to do mine in ECN-2 proper so I'll shoot at 250.

 

[Lam-Bartll]

The thing that does need to be kept in mind is that Remjet was the cheapest-per-foot 'good enough' solution, rather than the best solution. B&W cine doesn't use remjet, which has presented problems with some 2-perf movements, as the pressure plates are essentially untreated/ unpainted metal.

I would not be surprised if it had (in part) to do with micro-scratches showing up in scans etc from the physical removal process.

Do you have any idea why doesn't B&W use remjet? I am not super familiar with ECN2 film in general because I can't find anywhere near me that develops it so I've stayed away.

 

[Europan]

A grey base is used with black-and-white negative films. Excess light has to travel through the plastic base two times at which it gets extinct. Most TAC base has a density of log 0.23.

 

[cptrios]

Ok, maybe I'm clueless...but what exactly is stopping anyone from ordering a 400' roll directly from Kodak?

 

[koraks]

what exactly is stopping anyone from ordering a 400' roll directly from Kodak?

The fact that they'll (1) redirect you to one of their distributors if you're just looking to purchase a single roll, and (2) that both EK and their distributors will ask you to fill in a form stating the working title of your cinematic production, who the production company is, who directs it etc. They may then check those references to see if your story adds up.

Give it a try, see what happens. I don't think you'll get very far.

 

[cptrios]

The fact that they'll (1) redirect you to one of their distributors if you're just looking to purchase a single roll, and (2) that both EK and their distributors will ask you to fill in a form stating the working title of your cinematic production, who the production company is, who directs it etc. They may then check those references to see if your story adds up.

Give it a try, see what happens. I don't think you'll get very far.

Well, that definitely sounds like "what's stopping" us! Seems like an awful lot of trouble to go through to prevent someone from giving them money.

 

[koraks]

The rationale is to stop the bleeding on the still film front. How much effort they'll put on their part...IDK. But fact of the matter is that you'll have to put in some effort on your part to coax them (or a willing distributor) to take your order in the first place. Give it a try; see how it goes, and please report back with your experience!

 

[BHuij]

And if you do manage to get your hands on 400' of AHU 250D, send me a DM because I'd be very interested in buying maybe 100' of it from you

 

[MattKing]

FWIW, I've recently become aware of some background information indicating that the motivation behind EK's the decision to switch to Estar base for the motion picture films included, among other things, {edited for accuracy} the significantly lower cost of the EK manufactured Estar base.

 

[Alan Edward Klein]

FWIW, I've recently become aware of some background information indicating that the motivation behind EK's the decision to switch to Estar base for the motion picture films included, among other things, , {edited for accuracy} ...the significantly lower cost of the EK manufactured Estar base.

3) Higher costs for German supplied products because of US tariffs.

 

[brbo]

FWIW, I've recently become aware of some background information indicating that the motivation behind EK's the decision to switch to Estar base for the motion picture films included

When did they switch to Estar for motion picture films? I don't remember remjet backed Vision3 films ever being available on Estar base. Even the latest AHU Vision3 film is still on acetate base.

 

[MattKing]

3) Higher costs for German supplied products because of US tariffs.

The decision pre-dated the current situation.

 

[MattKing]

When did they switch to Estar for motion picture films? I don't remember remjet backed Vision3 films ever being available on Estar base. Even the latest AHU Vision3 film is still on acetate base.

Oops - you are correct - I conflated two pieces of information.
The relegation of remjet was due to ... {edited for accuracy}
And separately, the move to Estar on as many film stocks as possible (still and other stocks, including intermediate materials) is due to the relative costs.
And both changes were at least partially made at the same time.

 

[halfaman]

Oops - you are correct - I conflated two pieces of information.
The relegation of remjet was due to the {edited for accuracy}
And separately, the move to Estar on as many film stocks as possible (still and other stocks, including intermediate materials) is due to the relative costs.
And both changes were at least partially made at the same time.

I read that ESTAR is too strong and it can stress too much the movie camera transport mechanism in case of jam. Acetate breaks easier and it is preferable as a film base.

 

[MattKing]

I read that ESTAR is too strong and it can stress too much the movie camera transport mechanism in case of jam. Acetate breaks easier and it is preferable as a film base.

Yes - but that is mostly the concern with motion picture cameras, now that 250 frame motor drive still film cameras are essentially a curiosity rather than a standard pro tool!

 

[bfilm]

I won't use polyester base films. I prefer acetate base. Cellulose acetate is more natural and traditional, has better core set properties that allow it to more consistently flatten with wet processing, is lower static and attacts less dust, and has more appropriate strength and handling for a film base. And I also just hate polyester, and synthetic polymers in general, as a material.

I remember a cinematographer who said polyester base film handles like a thin metal, creates lots of problems (including in the lab), and that its strength is more of a disadvantage than an advantage. Fortunately for movies, they only have to deal with it in postproduction films and not in camera films.

There are some advantages to polyester base in sheet film, because of the dimensional stability and archiving because the thicker sheet film base is more prone than roll film to the degradation that can happen with acetate stored in bad conditions. But I still don't like the material, and I hate it in roll film.

Unfortunately, their move to polyester base has made me quit using Kodak color negative films. I am hoping they continue to put 35mm Ektachrome E100 on acetate base -- there might be some hope for that if it shares coating and production with the motion picture Ektachrome 100D film stocks.

Harman, Ilford, and CineStill are still putting roll films on acetate base. And unless it changes with the new ownership, Ferrania is putting roll films on acetate base. And when they make film, Fuji is still putting roll films on acetate base.

 

[MattKing]

FWIW, the reason that the acetate base on film has exploded in cost is primarily related to how dependent its manufacture is on European petrochemical supply costs.

 

[bfilm]

FWIW, the reason that the acetate base on film has exploded in cost is primarily related to how dependent its manufacture is on European petrochemical supply costs.

That doesn't seem right. There are no petrochemicals in cellulose acetate. Petrochemical supply costs would much more affect polyester.