Kodak Photo-Flo 200 Dilution?

[Alan Johnson]

I am pleased to see I use about the same amount as Gerald Koch (post 32). The photoflo container dispenses a standard size of drop and in any case from this thread good results appear possible over a wide range of concentrations. I used 2 drops/100 ml demin water for many years.

 

[bunip]

well, my troubles begun measuring 4 ml of PhotoFlo 200 in one liter of water and using this mixture on my film...

 

[bvy]

Well, I discovered that 4ml per liter of water was the magic bullet. If I tried 3ml or 5ml, my film would come out with holes in it. Also, it's important not to hang the film upside down; this is a sure way to get not only drying marks but your film will attract bees. If you continue to have problems, try drying your film with a curling iron and in the company of a live chicken.

 

[Doremus Scudder]

Measure! Do not use drops! Drops are not an accurate way to measure. Are you using US Standard drops, Metric drops or Imperial drops? With PhotoFlo 200 one needs 5ml of PhotoFlo in one liter of water. Really, how hard is it to measure 5ml and 1 liter?

Actually, drops are an extremely accurate way to measure small amounts of liquid. Medicines in Europe are commonly dispensed by number of drops. For any particular viscosity, a drop will always be the same volume as long as it collects and falls on its own from the source (eyedropper or small spout or whatever). One could easily find the number of drops of Photo Flo concentrate in, say 1 or 2 ml and calculate the volume and then the number of drops needed to make small amounts of working solution. Heck, Kodak gives a "capful" as an acceptable measure. I don't know about you, but I find the Photo-Flo caps to be rather difficult to measure with...

Best,

Doremus

 

[Sirius Glass]

Heck, Kodak gives a "capful" as an acceptable measure. I don't know about you, but I find the Photo-Flo caps to be rather difficult to measure with...

I do. So are you using US Standard, Imperial or Metric drops?

 

[bvy]

I do. So are you using US Standard, Imperial or Metric drops?

A drop is a drop. 20 to 25 drops = 1ml. No, it's not precise. My dropper might not drip like your dropper. If absolute precision is necessary, you don't measure in drops of course. But for this application, the margin of error is so small that it's not going to be the determining factor as to whether or not your film has drying marks. 5ml of PhotoFlo per liter of water, should work as well (or as badly) as plus or minus "a few drops."

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Actually, drops are an extremely accurate way to measure small amounts of liquid. Medicines in Europe are commonly dispensed by number of drops. For any particular viscosity, a drop will always be the same volume as long as it collects and falls on its own from the source (eyedropper or small spout or whatever). One could easily find the number of drops of Photo Flo concentrate in, say 1 or 2 ml and calculate the volume and then the number of drops needed to make small amounts of working solution. Heck, Kodak gives a "capful" as an acceptable measure. I don't know about you, but I find the Photo-Flo caps to be rather difficult to measure with...

Best,

Doremus

FWIW ,there are about 12 drops in a ml of water.

 

[msage]

Six pages on something that seems to be simple but is not so easy! Where I live we are on well water but is slightly soft. Except for early mistakes (40+ years ago) I use the recommended dilution in distilled water and have not had any problems. I do think water quality makes a difference, so what works for me may not work for others!

 

[Sirius Glass]

FWIW ,there are about 12 drops in a ml of water.

But surfactants are more viscous than water so that does now apply. Measure 5ml of PhotoFlo and then add one liter of water.

 

[Doremus Scudder]

But surfactants are more viscous than water so that does now apply. Measure 5ml of PhotoFlo and then add one liter of water.

...or figure out how many drops of Photo Flo it takes to make 5ml (it'll be the same every time if you let the drops form and fall by their own weight). Then you can just add that many drops to one liter (or half that many drops to 500ml) and save yourself the trouble of getting out the graduated cylinder and measuring every time.

Best,

Doremus

 

[Sirius Glass]

...or figure out how many drops of Photo Flo it takes to make 5ml (it'll be the same every time if you let the drops form and fall by their own weight). Then you can just add that many drops to one liter (or half that many drops to 500ml) and save yourself the trouble of getting out the graduated cylinder and measuring every time.

Best,

Doremus

I would rather get out a graduated cylinder and be right than deal with stained negatives.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

...or figure out how many drops of Photo Flo it takes to make 5ml (it'll be the same every time if you let the drops form and fall by their own weight). Then you can just add that many drops to one liter (or half that many drops to 500ml) and save yourself the trouble of getting out the graduated cylinder and measuring every time.

Best,

Doremus

or you could make a more concentrated stock solution of fotoflow and then water that does to the right ratio; or just use a drop or two and be done with it.

 

[Doremus Scudder]

I would rather get out a graduated cylinder and be right than deal with stained negatives.

Sirius,
What I'm trying to point out (hopefully in a good-natured and humorous fashion) is that drops are really accurate, as accurate as measuring with the graduated cylinder, especially for smaller amounts where measuring error with the graduated cylinder is much larger. One method is no better than the other. Both are "right" and will not result in stained negatives.

If one uses an eyedropper or the like and lets drops slowly form and fall under their own weight, each drop is, within a very small margin, the same volume. The margin of error measuring a ml or so in a graduated cylinder is likely much higher unless one uses a thin graduated pipette or syringe (which I do for developer stock solutions where I need 5ml or more). I find it more convenient at the Photo-Flo stage to simply measure out the requisite number of drops with an eyedropper. I'm confident that my measurement accuracy is well-within the margin of error for mixing that particular solution. Point being: I'm not being slapdash or sloppy here.

Here in Europe, many very strongly-concentrated medications are sold to consumers in bottles with a drop-dispenser top. Doses are given in number of drops. Some of these medicines contain opiods, etc., which need rather careful dosing. The drop method, again, does the job within the margin of error for that particular application.

My point is simply that drops are accurate and could present a more convenient method of measuring out Photo-Flo or small amounts of other concentrated stock solutions than using a graduated cylinder for many. I use drops for mixing bleaches, wetting agents, developer additives and small amounts of other aqueous stock solutions. I use syringes for volumes from 5-10ml or so. I have a battery of different graduated cylinders in sizes from 15ml to 2 liters. I use what I feel is most accurate and appropriate for the task at hand.

Best,

Doremus

 

[Sirius Glass]

Sirius,
What I'm trying to point out (hopefully in a good-natured and humorous fashion) is that drops are really accurate, as accurate as measuring with the graduated cylinder, especially for smaller amounts where measuring error with the graduated cylinder is much larger. One method is no better than the other. Both are "right" and will not result in stained negatives.

If one uses an eyedropper or the like and lets drops slowly form and fall under their own weight, each drop is, within a very small margin, the same volume. The margin of error measuring a ml or so in a graduated cylinder is likely much higher unless one uses a thin graduated pipette or syringe (which I do for developer stock solutions where I need 5ml or more). I find it more convenient at the Photo-Flo stage to simply measure out the requisite number of drops with an eyedropper. I'm confident that my measurement accuracy is well-within the margin of error for mixing that particular solution. Point being: I'm not being slapdash or sloppy here.

Here in Europe, many very strongly-concentrated medications are sold to consumers in bottles with a drop-dispenser top. Doses are given in number of drops. Some of these medicines contain opiods, etc., which need rather careful dosing. The drop method, again, does the job within the margin of error for that particular application.

My point is simply that drops are accurate and could present a more convenient method of measuring out Photo-Flo or small amounts of other concentrated stock solutions than using a graduated cylinder for many. I use drops for mixing bleaches, wetting agents, developer additives and small amounts of other aqueous stock solutions. I use syringes for volumes from 5-10ml or so. I have a battery of different graduated cylinders in sizes from 15ml to 2 liters. I use what I feel is most accurate and appropriate for the task at hand.

Best,

Doremus

Yes, but there are some here that state that is ok to just dump a splash in. That invites problems.

 

[Tim Stapp]

When my wife measure out her therapudic natural oils, she uses drops. They actually have a conversion chart (not available at the moment, I'm on the road) that gives the number of drops per ml volume.

 

[bvy]

Yes, but there are some here that state that is ok to just dump a splash in. That invites problems.

There are 3.5 splashes in a milliliter.

 

[Sirius Glass]

There are 3.5 splashes in as milliliter.

Metric, Imperial or US Standard splashes?

 

[mshchem]

The old small glass bottle had a small yellow and red metal cap . That was 1 capful to 20 US fluid ounces . Maybe that would be a good product. A teeny weenie 3mL stainless steel measuring cup on a stick

 

[RalphLambrecht]

Sirius,
What I'm trying to point out (hopefully in a good-natured and humorous fashion) is that drops are really accurate, as accurate as measuring with the graduated cylinder, especially for smaller amounts where measuring error with the graduated cylinder is much larger. One method is no better than the other. Both are "right" and will not result in stained negatives.

If one uses an eyedropper or the like and lets drops slowly form and fall under their own weight, each drop is, within a very small margin, the same volume. The margin of error measuring a ml or so in a graduated cylinder is likely much higher unless one uses a thin graduated pipette or syringe (which I do for developer stock solutions where I need 5ml or more). I find it more convenient at the Photo-Flo stage to simply measure out the requisite number of drops with an eyedropper. I'm confident that my measurement accuracy is well-within the margin of error for mixing that particular solution. Point being: I'm not being slapdash or sloppy here.

Here in Europe, many very strongly-concentrated medications are sold to consumers in bottles with a drop-dispenser top. Doses are given in number of drops. Some of these medicines contain opiods, etc., which need rather careful dosing. The drop method, again, does the job within the margin of error for that particular application.

My point is simply that drops are accurate and could present a more convenient method of measuring out Photo-Flo or small amounts of other concentrated stock solutions than using a graduated cylinder for many. I use drops for mixing bleaches, wetting agents, developer additives and small amounts of other aqueous stock solutions. I use syringes for volumes from 5-10ml or so. I have a battery of different graduated cylinders in sizes from 15ml to 2 liters. I use what I feel is most accurate and appropriate for the task at hand.

Best,

Doremus

if I need accurately measured small amounts,
I use a graduated syringe or predicate to get a, let's say 1:100 solution first from which I can measure a larger amount in order to get the active amount I desire.

 

[Sirius Glass]

It's called Photoflo 200 for a reason: the diluition must be 1:200

I am glad that at least one person gets it!

 

[RalphLambrecht]

I am glad that at least one person gets it!

Yeah but, it's really 1+199.

 

[Alan Johnson]

It's called Photoflo 200 for a reason: the diluition must be 1:200

No, that's just listed as "typical dilution":
http://imaging.kodakalaris.com/sites/prod/files/files/product-categories/e103cf.pdf

 

[darkroommike]

Yeah but, it's really 1+199.

Nope this one actually says add 5 ml Photoflo to one liter of water. 1:200 is Kodak for Ilford 1+200. It means one part in 200 parts. Quoting PE, "Use 2 ml of Photo Flo 200 in 400 ml of water and this should fill most tanks for film development. Your bottle will last you probably your entire life."

 

[Sirius Glass]

Nope this one actually says add 5 ml Photoflo to one liter of water. 1:200 is Kodak for Ilford 1+200. It means one part in 200 parts. Quoting PE, "Use 2 ml of Photo Flo 200 in 400 ml of water and this should fill most tanks for film development. Your bottle will last you probably your entire life."

That is what I have been saying.

 

[removed account4]

LOL its really a couple of drops in a tank / tray of water
and i agree with PE a bottle will last a lifetime, a small bottle
of the old stuff i bought in 1981 just finished about a year or 2 ago.
that said, if someone wants to add 1cc 200 cc of water, i am sure that's fine too/