Kodak Photo-Flo 200 Dilution?

[Sirius Glass]

There is 1:200 bottles of PhotoFlo and there is 1:600 bottles of PhotoFlo. Read the bottle and follow the instructions.

 

[Vaughn]

Be aware that the Photo-Flo 600 uses slightly different chemicals and is actually toxic, while Photo-Flo 200 is not. I bought a gallon of Photo-Flo 2100 for the university darkroom (it is the non-toxic formulation) and they'll still be using that bottle (if they did not already toss it out) for decades.

If I remember correctly, I used 7 oz of the Photo-Flo 2100 to make a gallon of stock solution. The stock solution was then used at one oz per gallon to make a working solution.

 

[silveror0]

I had the same problem with Edwal LFN and distilled water. It's hard to use less than a drop (more water, yes, but I buy the water too). I went back to PhotoFlo.

That defies an explanation which I can't provide, unless it's something to do with the fact that I'm strictly a sheet film guy and if you're using roll film, then the droplets of fluid on the film have a far longer path to leave the film when hung to dry. Also I assume you stir the working solution adequately.

 

[bvy]

That defies an explanation which I can't provide, unless it's something to do with the fact that I'm strictly a sheet film guy and if you're using roll film, then the droplets of fluid on the film have a far longer path to leave the film when hung to dry. Also I assume you stir the working solution adequately.

Yes, roll film. 35mm HP5+ shown here, contrast-enhanced to show the drying marks I got with Edwal LFN. This was more extreme than anything I had gotten with Photo Flo, so I went back to Photo Flo. But I still have issues occasionally.

 

[Andrew O'Neill]

Fuji Drywell. That is all that I have ever used. I always pick up a bottle when I'm in Japan. Just picked one up there last week even though I still have half a bottle from two years ago. The stuff is dirt cheap!

 

[silveror0]

Yes, roll film. 35mm HP5+ shown here, contrast-enhanced to show the drying marks I got with Edwal LFN. This was more extreme than anything I had gotten with Photo Flo, so I went back to Photo Flo. But I still have issues occasionally. View attachment 176228

A shame to spoil such a nice smile like that. You know, you could devise a method to tether the bottom of the films so they hang off-vertical enough to allow the fluid to quickly go to the edge of the film (like sheet film hung by a corner), then runs down the edge and off. Sounds like a kludge but I think not too difficult, and if it works …

 

[bvy]

A shame to spoil such a nice smile like that. You know, you could devise a method to tether the bottom of the films so they hang off-vertical enough to allow the fluid to quickly go to the edge of the film (like sheet film hung by a corner), then runs down the edge and off. Sounds like a kludge but I think not too difficult, and if it works …

Eh, it's just a backstage snapshot from a show I was in. And I could probably still get a decent print from it. Anyway, I've considered hanging the film different ways. I've also considered letting it drip/dry partially on the reel (on its side), and then hanging it as usual.

 

[dynachrome]

1/2 capful of the old small bottle per 8 oz in distilled water.

 

[RattyMouse]

Photo-Flo contains an antifoaming agent which unfortunately can leave a residue especially with hard water. Kodak's recommendation is far too much. I use 3 to 5 drops per 250 ml (1 roll). The antifoaming agent is there for commercial installations with machine processing where foaming is an issue. The home user really doesn't need it. I now use a mix of Triton X-100 and proplylene glycol instead. This is the same as Photo-Flo but without the antifoaming agent.

My bottle of Photoflo contains no defoamer. If I put 2-3 mls of photoflo in water and agitate mildly, there will be prodigious amounts of foam. I mean a LOT. If there is a defoamer, it is not doing anything.

 

[RattyMouse]

I know that if i use too much (4-5 drops of the 1:200 working solution for 600ml water), i tend to get streaks and marks.

So this stuff seems to be designed to be used very sparingly.

I always wait until the bubbles are gone before lifting the reel out gently. Then i centrifuge the film by swinging the empty tank with the reel back and fourth a few times.

Gets rid of most excess water, seems to work.

The final dilution is supposed to be 1:200. You are not supposed to further dilute that down even more. 4-5 drops of a 1:200 dilution into 600mls is virtually nothing.

1:200 is only 50 parts per million. Taking a few drops of that into 600 mls means you have Photoflo only in the parts per BILLION level. Absolutely useless.

 

[bvy]

I'm getting drying marks at 1+200, and I'm going to cut back, probably in half.

 

[Wayne]

I may have already replied, but I use as little as I can get the cap to dispense, whether its going into a 120 roll tank or a tray. A few drops is always plenty.

 

[ruilourosa]

tetenal mirasol adds anti bacterial and anti fungical properties...

does someone adds a diy formula??? knoppow once said that triton x 100 could be used with some isopropanol... i once added a drop to 50ml isopropanol to 1liter of water and it worked very well but i got worried about permanence and got back to comercial products...

 

[Helinophoto]

The final dilution is supposed to be 1:200. You are not supposed to further dilute that down even more. 4-5 drops of a 1:200 dilution into 600mls is virtually nothing.

1:200 is only 50 parts per million. Taking a few drops of that into 600 mls means you have Photoflo only in the parts per BILLION level. Absolutely useless.

Then why does it foam like crazy?

My procedure is 3 drops in an empty tank, fill to 600ml, stir gently and dunk the tank when the film is submerged, wait until foam has dissipated, lift out gently, empty tank.

It removes water-spouts for me.
When I don't use it, i get dried droplets everywhere.

So yeah, 3 drops of the 1:200 seems to do exactly as designed, in my tanks at least.

 

[RattyMouse]

Then why does it foam like crazy?

My procedure is 3 drops in an empty tank, fill to 600ml, stir gently and dunk the tank when the film is submerged, wait until foam has dissipated, lift out gently, empty tank.

It removes water-spouts for me.
When I don't use it, i get dried droplets everywhere.

So yeah, 3 drops of the 1:200 seems to do exactly as designed, in my tanks at least.

I'll try this next time I soup up a few rolls. I find it very hard to believe that such a super diluted solution would foam, but I could be wrong. I've studied foams in water for 25 years in my day job and am super sensitive to the creation of foam.

 

[Helinophoto]

Does this mean you don't do bubble-baths?



Just kidding =)
- try it, it really does foam as you fill the tank and here it takes 1-2 minutes to dissipate, I use 2-3 drops from a glass eye-dropper (http://image.magicessence.com.au/data/bottles/bottle-eyedropper.jpg ) from my lipstick-size brown bottle with 1:200 solution.

 

[Wayne]

I'll try this next time I soup up a few rolls. I find it very hard to believe that such a super diluted solution would foam, but I could be wrong. I've studied foams in water for 25 years in my day job and am super sensitive to the creation of foam.

It'll foam. Maybe you should stop putting your film in soup; the oils could be affecting your wash and dry cycle.

 

[MattKing]

I make an intermediate stock solution with isopropyl alcohol (keeps well for a long time) and then dilute from that.
But even when I just used a drop or two of the Photo-flo concentrate, I used the following procedure:
1) mix up the working solution while the film was being fixed (or earlier);
2) use a separate container;
3) half fill the container with near room temperature water, add the drop(s), gently add the rest of the room temperature water, stir gently;
4) allow to come to room temperature.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I may have already replied, but I use as little as I can get the cap to dispense, whether its going into a 120 roll tank or a tray. A few drops is always plenty.

If you would just add 0.5ml and fill to the liter line, then you would be following directions and would avoid having to post threads on what went wrong with your film. That would be a win for everyone.

 

[canuhead]

Fuji Drywell. That is all that I have ever used. I always pick up a bottle when I'm in Japan. Just picked one up there last week even though I still have half a bottle from two years ago. The stuff is dirt cheap!

do tell Andrew...what makes it different from the usual suspects ? I've got Photo Flo 200 and 600

 

[bvy]

If you would just add 0.5ml and fill to the liter line, then you would be following directions and would avoid having to post threads on what went wrong with your film. That would be a win for everyone.

The point that you keep missing is that strict adherence to the directions is not working for everyone under all circumstances.

 

[Wayne]

If you would just add 0.5ml and fill to the liter line, then you would be following directions and would avoid having to post threads on what went wrong with your film. That would be a win for everyone.

I've never had a problem with drying my film. Ever. We've been down this road before.

 

[RattyMouse]

It'll foam. Maybe you should stop putting your film in soup; the oils could be affecting your wash and dry cycle.

 

[Gerald C Koch]

My bottle of Photoflo contains no defoamer. If I put 2-3 mls of photoflo in water and agitate mildly, there will be prodigious amounts of foam. I mean a LOT. If there is a defoamer, it is not doing anything.

Kodak may have changed their formula. It's sometimes hard to tell from an MSDS as only those ingredients considered dangerous need be listed. However my bottle of Photo-Flo approximately 15 years old does contain Antifoam B according to the data sheet. Since many on APUG have old or even ancient bottles I think the comment about a antifoaming agent to still be pertinent. Many of the antifoaming agents contain sodium tallowate which is just a fancy way of saying soap made from animal fat. This will form a scum with hard water. Hence the spotting seen when too much Photo-Flo s used.

 

[MattKing]

Concerning old/ancient bottles, doesn't Photoflo have an expiry date? At least I see one printed on my current bottle.

That may be more related to the integrity of the bottle than to the integrity of the contents within!
It also may be related to the requirements of ISO certification.
There certainly wasn't any "best before" dates on the old glass bottles.
The plastic bottle I am currently using has a "2009-03" date on it, but no language attached that would indicate whether that is a production date or a use by date.