Kodak Photo-Flo 200 Dilution?

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by RalphLambrecht, Mar 7, 2011.

  1. Doremus Scudder

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    Paolo,

    Wash your film in running water or changes of water without Photo-Flo. Use the Photo-Flo wetting agent for a final rinse before drying. Mix it with distilled water. If your tap water is hard, soak your film in the Photo-Flo/distilled water bath for 5-10 minutes to get the minerals out of the film. Don't store and reuse Photo-Flo solutions; they degrade and grow slime fairly quickly. Use it one-shot or one-session.

    Best,

    Doremus
     
  2. jnanian

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    i don't make a large quantity, i leave it in the stock purchased in bottle, and just pour out a tiny bit
    onto the cap and drip a couple of drops in etiher a hand tank or tray or film washer of washed films.
    i wack the container ( if it isn't a tray of film ) to get the bubbles off, run the film through the fotoflo and water
    and if it is rolls of film in a tank, i carefully flow water onto of the can to flow the bubbles off .. i remove the film from the can
    and hang them .. sheets i flop them one side than the other and hang them ... been doing it this way for a long time
    and was recommended this way by teachers and never had issues..
     
  3. bunip

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    Wow, lots of useful suggestions here. Many thanks to you all. Usually i wash film in the tank with running water, then take out film, put one small drop of tensioactive in the tank with water and put film back in. Then hang to dry. Will surely add your suggestions to my workflow. Next week I’ll have to wash the already cut film and was thinking to do it in a tray like sheet film.
     
  4. OP
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    RalphLambrecht

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    I agree with using as little photo-flo as possible; I use one drop per 0.5liters... and do't use hair soap! You don'y know what's in it and what that does to your film emulsion.
     
  5. Alan Johnson

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    I use 2 drops Photoflo per 100 ml demin water but also add isopropanol 5ml per 100 ml demin water to stop bugs growing, making this solution re-useable After this the negatives are left to dry with a piece of string attached to the lower clip to pull them away from vertical so that any runs go harmlessly to the edge of the film..
     
  6. Sirius Glass

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    Measure! Do not use drops! Drops are not an accurate way to measure. Are you using US Standard drops, Metric drops or Imperial drops? With PhotoFlo 200 one needs 5ml of PhotoFlo in one liter of water. Really, how hard is it to measure 5ml and 1 liter?
     
  7. Alan Johnson

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    I am pleased to see I use about the same amount as Gerald Koch (post 32). The photoflo container dispenses a standard size of drop and in any case from this thread good results appear possible over a wide range of concentrations. I used 2 drops/100 ml demin water for many years.
     
    Last edited: Mar 1, 2018
  8. bunip

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    well, my troubles begun measuring 4 ml of PhotoFlo 200 in one liter of water and using this mixture on my film...
     
  9. bvy

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    Well, I discovered that 4ml per liter of water was the magic bullet. If I tried 3ml or 5ml, my film would come out with holes in it. Also, it's important not to hang the film upside down; this is a sure way to get not only drying marks but your film will attract bees. If you continue to have problems, try drying your film with a curling iron and in the company of a live chicken.
     
  10. Doremus Scudder

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    Actually, drops are an extremely accurate way to measure small amounts of liquid. Medicines in Europe are commonly dispensed by number of drops. For any particular viscosity, a drop will always be the same volume as long as it collects and falls on its own from the source (eyedropper or small spout or whatever). One could easily find the number of drops of Photo Flo concentrate in, say 1 or 2 ml and calculate the volume and then the number of drops needed to make small amounts of working solution. Heck, Kodak gives a "capful" as an acceptable measure. I don't know about you, but I find the Photo-Flo caps to be rather difficult to measure with...

    Best,

    Doremus
     
  11. Sirius Glass

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    I do. So are you using US Standard, Imperial or Metric drops?
     
  12. bvy

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    A drop is a drop. 20 to 25 drops = 1ml. No, it's not precise. My dropper might not drip like your dropper. If absolute precision is necessary, you don't measure in drops of course. But for this application, the margin of error is so small that it's not going to be the determining factor as to whether or not your film has drying marks. 5ml of PhotoFlo per liter of water, should work as well (or as badly) as plus or minus "a few drops."
     
  13. OP
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    RalphLambrecht

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    FWIW ,there are about 12 drops in a ml of water.
     
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  15. msage

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    Six pages on something that seems to be simple but is not so easy! Where I live we are on well water but is slightly soft. Except for early mistakes (40+ years ago) I use the recommended dilution in distilled water and have not had any problems. I do think water quality makes a difference, so what works for me may not work for others!
     
  16. Sirius Glass

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    But surfactants are more viscous than water so that does now apply. Measure 5ml of PhotoFlo and then add one liter of water.
     
  17. Doremus Scudder

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    ...or figure out how many drops of Photo Flo it takes to make 5ml (it'll be the same every time if you let the drops form and fall by their own weight). Then you can just add that many drops to one liter (or half that many drops to 500ml) and save yourself the trouble of getting out the graduated cylinder and measuring every time. :smile:

    Best,

    Doremus
     
  18. Sirius Glass

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    I would rather get out a graduated cylinder and be right than deal with stained negatives.
     
  19. OP
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    RalphLambrecht

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    or you could make a more concentrated stock solution of fotoflow and then water that does to the right ratio; or just use a drop or two and be done with it.
     
  20. Doremus Scudder

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    Sirius,
    What I'm trying to point out (hopefully in a good-natured and humorous fashion) is that drops are really accurate, as accurate as measuring with the graduated cylinder, especially for smaller amounts where measuring error with the graduated cylinder is much larger. One method is no better than the other. Both are "right" and will not result in stained negatives.

    If one uses an eyedropper or the like and lets drops slowly form and fall under their own weight, each drop is, within a very small margin, the same volume. The margin of error measuring a ml or so in a graduated cylinder is likely much higher unless one uses a thin graduated pipette or syringe (which I do for developer stock solutions where I need 5ml or more). I find it more convenient at the Photo-Flo stage to simply measure out the requisite number of drops with an eyedropper. I'm confident that my measurement accuracy is well-within the margin of error for mixing that particular solution. Point being: I'm not being slapdash or sloppy here.

    Here in Europe, many very strongly-concentrated medications are sold to consumers in bottles with a drop-dispenser top. Doses are given in number of drops. Some of these medicines contain opiods, etc., which need rather careful dosing. The drop method, again, does the job within the margin of error for that particular application.

    My point is simply that drops are accurate and could present a more convenient method of measuring out Photo-Flo or small amounts of other concentrated stock solutions than using a graduated cylinder for many. I use drops for mixing bleaches, wetting agents, developer additives and small amounts of other aqueous stock solutions. I use syringes for volumes from 5-10ml or so. I have a battery of different graduated cylinders in sizes from 15ml to 2 liters. I use what I feel is most accurate and appropriate for the task at hand.

    Best,

    Doremus
     
  21. Sirius Glass

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    Yes, but there are some here that state that is ok to just dump a splash in. That invites problems.
     
  22. Tim Stapp

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    When my wife measure out her therapudic natural oils, she uses drops. They actually have a conversion chart (not available at the moment, I'm on the road) that gives the number of drops per ml volume.
     
  23. bvy

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    There are 3.5 splashes in a milliliter.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2018
  24. Sirius Glass

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    Metric, Imperial or US Standard splashes?
     
  25. mshchem

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    The old small glass bottle had a small yellow and red metal cap . That was 1 capful to 20 US fluid ounces . Maybe that would be a good product. A teeny weenie 3mL stainless steel measuring cup on a stick :D
     
  26. OP
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    RalphLambrecht

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    if I need accurately measured small amounts,
    I use a graduated syringe or predicate to get a, let's say 1:100 solution first from which I can measure a larger amount in order to get the active amount I desire.
     
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