Kodak color silver paper appears to be reshipping now

[LomoSnap]

I saw a new batch of Kodak premier digital paper being sold on a Chinese shopping website, with an expiration date of 2025/06!
I saw that it no longer has any Sinopromise production mark, but is produced by a company called "Blue Taie International Company".
Very happy to see kodak premier digital paper back in production! And look forward to the re-release of ENDURA Premier and ENDURA Premier Metallic.

 

[Kino]

I thought I would never see this again...

 

[MattKing]

I'm most intrigued by the licensing reference - "Kodak HK Blue ISO Limited"

 

[cmacd123]

wonder if Eastman Kodak's Licensing department has been extra busy? or did the paper buisness get sold from the ruins of Sino-Promise.

 

[mshchem]

I have received a mailing from Unique Photo 3 days back offering Kodak paper in most roll sizes. Very low prices compared to Fuji. I have no idea if it's produced in China or if it's leftovers.

 

[mshchem]

Note everything I see from Unique is E surface luster.

 

[mshchem]

Looks like Unique is selling leftovers .

"Dating and supply through end of 2024"

https://www.uniquephoto.com/kodaksupraenduravc12x288e1600337

 

[koraks]

back in production

I'm cautious after the last couple of red herrings.
So far I've not come across information from inside the industry that suggests Carestream are coating RA4 paper again.

It's possible that it's actually made in China as the label says, which means it's not real Endura but something made by Lucky. Their papers are notorious in terms of archival stability.

 

[MattKing]

which means it's not real Endura

I'm not sure the last "Endura" wasn't real.
Production has, historically, moved all around the globe.

 

[koraks]

I'm not sure the last "Endura" wasn't real.

The 'real' Endura AFAIK was always coated in either the UK or in Colorado. I'm not sure as to the quality level of any Endura that may or may not have been coated in China. What I do know is that there's no Kodak or Carestream (ex-Kodak) involvement in coating operations in China, presently. I do know that papers from Lucky tend to be quasi-copies of Western papers (so far mostly Fuji), but with (very) poor archival stability. As such, I have severe doubts that a Lucky-produced Endura would be a viable substitute for a real (US/UK-produced) Endura for anything except casual prints intended to last maybe a year or two on low-light display.

 

[MattKing]

No doubt.
But historically, I think Kodak RA-4 papers were produced in more locations - although that could very well have shrunk to two by the time that Endura came into being.

 

[koraks]

Absolutely, and I think Kodak was instrumental in setting up or otherwise assisting coating operations in China for their Asian market. But I think they pulled out two decades ago or so.

It's somewhat annoying because people keep associating the Kodak brand with the quality that esp. Endura offered up to a decade ago. For most amateur printers, this may be nothing more than a nuisance; our snaps may deteriorate a lot faster than we might expect, but what gives? My concern is with the few remaining fine arts printers many of whom still favor Endura and who might be enticed to jump into this quasi-Kodak adventure, only with their prints being inherently compromised, which is a threat to their livelihood. So my enthusiasm is...limited.

 

[LomoSnap]

I'm most intrigued by the licensing reference - "Kodak HK Blue ISO Limited"

Through searching, I surprisingly discovered that "Blue ISO Limited" is SinoPromise!

 

[koraks]

Through searching, I surprisingly discovered that "Blue ISO Limited" is SinoPromise!

Well, that makes a clear connection with SinoPromise and apparently, this new/other entity acquired the rights to the use of the Kodak name from SinoPromise. It all seems very plausible.

The main question is what paper this is and how it performs, both in the short run (printing) as the long run (storage & display).

 

[LomoSnap]

I recently got some for testing.
To be precise, it is completely different from the original KODAK Premier Digital Paper and is not the same product. I printed the new paper using original KODAK Premier Digital Paper color filter value, which gave a color cast result.
By use new color filter value, I printed a color as close to the original KODAK Premier Digital Paper as possible, but there are still some differences.

Finally, I printed the Lucky SA-26 Paper using the same color filter values I used to print the new KODAK Premier Digital Paper, and their colors are very close!
So I guess, it comes from lucky manufacturing.

 

[mshchem]

I recently got some for testing.
To be precise, it is completely different from the original KODAK Premier Digital Paper and is not the same product. I printed the new paper using original KODAK Premier Digital Paper color filter value, which gave a color cast result.
By use new color filter value, I printed a color as close to the original KODAK Premier Digital Paper as possible, but there are still some differences.

Finally, I printed the Lucky SA-26 Paper using the same color filter values I used to print the new KODAK Premier Digital Paper, and their colors are very close!
So I guess, it comes from lucky manufacturing.

Thanks for this information!

 

[koraks]

So I guess, it comes from lucky manufacturing.

Yes, it does seem like it - thanks for verifying!

 

[Kino]

I am at the point of giving-up on the hope of printing RA-4 eventually. I really wanted to try 4x5 Portra, but it is looking increasingly dismal for the future of color printing in the darkroom...

 

[mshchem]

I have all manner of equipment so that's not a barrier. I think it's fun, however so is scanning Fujichrome and making inkjet prints.

 

[koraks]

I am at the point of giving-up on the hope of printing RA-4 eventually. I really wanted to try 4x5 Portra, but it is looking increasingly dismal for the future of color printing in the darkroom...

I'm not quite sure what you mean - this bit of news about Lucky producing paper and selling it under the Kodak brand doesn't change much. Fuji papers are in plentiful supply, also in the US, and they work great for optical enlargement. Chemistry is likewise easy to get hold of. What's holding you back?

 

[Kino]

I'm not quite sure what you mean - this bit of news about Lucky producing paper and selling it under the Kodak brand doesn't change much. Fuji papers are in plentiful supply, also in the US, and they work great for optical enlargement. Chemistry is likewise easy to get hold of. What's holding you back?

Unlike B&W, the supply chain seems so fragile it could collapse at any moment; at least that is the impression I get. Maybe I am just a pessimist.

 

[koraks]

Unlike B&W, the supply chain seems so fragile it could collapse at any moment

Tens of millions of square meters of color paper are being produced annually by Fuji. This feeds a sizeable industry that churns out millions upon millions of prints. As long as that market is there, I'm not too worried.

Btw, I live today, so I choose to print today. How and what I'll print in ten years, I'll figure out by that time. I don't feel like worrying about that now.

 

[DREW WILEY]

You have it backwards, Kino. If the supply chain for Fuji paper itself seems fragile to you, you are looking at entirely wrong supply sources. Huge volumes are being sold - far more square footage, in fact, than black and white chemically-processed papers. Those of us on forums like this who are interested in RA4 printing are just a small percent of the overall demand. A commercial lab might consume more RA4 paper in a single day than any of us do in a year.

 

[MattKing]

It is probably correct to say that during the height of the Covid pandemic, most of the supply chains were incredibly fragile - and many of them did collapse.
We are still experiencing the response.
Stay tuned - but note koraks' observation about current demand.
Last night I happened to screen the additional special features blue ray disk that accompanied the blue ray of "Oppenheimer" that I borrowed from our local library. The features that dealt in detail with how the movie was made are wonderful. I particularly enjoyed the information about how they used scissors and film cement to manually edit what I assume to be intermediate negative film stock, prior to optically printing for projection.
Followed shortly by a careful, scene by scene, A:B comparison to, as best as possible, match the digital IMAX version they created to the analog one.
All of which illustrated that if there is at least some demand for things, there is a reasonable likelihood of supply.

 

[DREW WILEY]

The main warehouse which supplied labs locally failed due to both the pandemic, and too much reliance on stocking Kodak paper only, even though they held an account with Fuji as well. But at the present time, stocks of Fuji RA4 are now starting to show signs of rapid recovery at the remaining suppliers, albeit as a somewhat different, or differently labeled, selection than in Europe.

But now that Fuji Crystal Archive products have gotten the upper hand, even if Kodak options are revived, they might not ever get a serious foothold in this country again. Of necessity, the labs have already switched.

{political references deleted by moderation team}

. This has led to a geographic redistribution of big suppliers - I can't just drive to a local warehouse anymore to pick up an order in person. Like so many other photo related things, color printing supplies have now become an internet or phone order kind of product almost exclusively. Only the CAii cut sheet product
have a presence in retailers, and in just a few of them.