Kodak Alaris for Sale?

Wallendo · Feb 8, 2019

It seems that they want $34 million for the right to distribute Eastman Kodak film and use the trademarks associated with them. Maybe that is a fair price.

I am not worried the company is up for sale and probably being split up. It would be far safer for the pension fund to have a diversified investment portfolio. My only concern is that a potential buyer could use the Kodak trademarks on non-Kodak film. Hopefully the EK-KA agreement addresses that.

cmacd123 · Feb 8, 2019

Wallendo said:
. My only concern is that a potential buyer could use the Kodak trademarks on non-Kodak film. Hopefully the EK-KA agreement addresses that.

At the time it was set up, the supply agreement was specified as "Non exclusive. so yes they could even now sell someone elses film as Kodak.

on the microfilm side, (which WAS another spinoff at one point) the Current Kodak Brand Microfilm is actually Agfa-Belgum COPEX, although I understand that Agfa stopped selling it under the COPEX name under that deal.

MattKing · Feb 8, 2019

Wallendo said:
It seems that they want $34 million for the right to distribute Eastman Kodak film and use the trademarks associated with them. Maybe that is a fair price.

You are ignoring the colour paper and photo chemistry businesses, which are larger than the film business.

cmacd123 said:
At the time it was set up, the supply agreement was specified as "Non exclusive. so yes they could even now sell someone elses film as Kodak.

Not necessarily. The "non-exclusive" part of the agreement may simply refer to the ability of Kodak Alaris to market other brands of film, from other sources.

Photo Engineer · Feb 8, 2019

Color paper demand has been plunging downward for some time.

PE

mshchem · Feb 8, 2019

Looking at the really nice, glossy annual report, it looks like Alaris is trying to impress investors. I suspect the need to close Harrow was the nail in the coffin. No one prints snapshots anymore. I stopped at Best Buy and Office Depot expecting a selection of inkjet paper. There wasn't more than small packages of 4x6, 5x7 and 8 1/2 x 11. Film may have stabilized, temporarily, but color paper, using a sourced product model, ain't working for Alaris. I just hope that the people making these products, can stay employed, and the products remain available .

AgX · Feb 8, 2019

Wallendo said:
My only concern is that a potential buyer could use the Kodak trademarks on non-Kodak film. Hopefully the EK-KA agreement addresses that.

cmacd123 said:
on the microfilm side, (which WAS another spinoff at one point) the Current Kodak Brand Microfilm is actually Agfa-Belgum COPEX, although I understand that Agfa stopped selling it under the COPEX name under that deal.

Yes, in 2013 Kodak stopped supplying their microfilm spin-off with films and then Agfa instead supplied them with microfilms, the same time stopping their own direct sales. Thus Agfa films are sold under the respective former Kodak tradename.

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/new-names-and-distribution-for-agfa-microfilms.104202/

mshchem · Feb 12, 2019

So I think we (the forum formerly known as APUG) should buy part of the Alaris PPF division. Maybe if we raised a couple grand we could buy the Trademark of Opal paper or Elon developing agent. We could print tee shirts to fund the forum. We might get lucky and be the next Loo Loo Lemon! Maybe Tight Ladies shirts printed "Elon, Look What's Developing!"
I now will apologize in advance .

removed account4 · Feb 12, 2019

They should have partnered with Photowarehouse/ Ultrafine to cut and box and distribute all their sheet films. They have had years of experience doing the same with "Made in England" films; woulda' been a win-win.

cmacd123 · Feb 14, 2019

jnantz said:
They have had years of experience doing the same with "Made in England" films; woulda' been a win-win.

who is to say they were not buying them already cut and packed with just their label on them? anyway - converting sheet film is a fairly simple - Low tech operation. All the equipment can be faked with machinery made for the commercial print-shop industry, except for the notching tool. COATING sheet film is a touch special as it works best if it is coated on THICK Polyester base. while 35mm is generally best on acetate base because of the light pipe issue..

pentaxuser · Feb 14, 2019

If the backing paper problem has truly started again and despite some evidence for this, the jury is probably still out , the sale price may have to drop. If there is still a problem here it's time that Kodak solved it once and for all.

A company may retain a reputation for trying its best but inability/incompetency trumps this, I feel

pentaxuser

cmacd123 · Feb 14, 2019

pentaxuser said:
If the backing paper problem has truly started again and despite some evidence for this, the jury is probably still out

Last package of TRI-X I got the backing paper was totally overlaid by a shiny coating. I assume that is intended to prevent any contact between the markings and the film surface.

mshchem · Mar 11, 2019

The sale is supposed to be final by the end of March. No news?

NB23 · Mar 11, 2019

Ahh so the day where Foma can give Kodak a few manufacturing lessons has come.

Jeezakrice.

mshchem · Mar 11, 2019

Too bad Foma and Forte didn't merge.

removed account4 · Mar 11, 2019

cmacd123 said:
who is to say they were not buying them already cut and packed with just their label on them? anyway - converting sheet film is a fairly simple - Low tech operation. All the equipment can be faked with machinery made for the commercial print-shop industry, except for the notching tool. COATING sheet film is a touch special as it works best if it is coated on THICK Polyester base. while 35mm is generally best on acetate base because of the light pipe issue..

Yeah I tried to broker a deal and have master rolls of Tri x shipped to PW. I spoke with an agent, then a VEEP and they said "word from the top is NO GO"
AGREED, coating film is a real beautiful thing, can't argue with that! but PW had decade/s experience cutting boxing and shipping thousands and thousands and thousands of sheets
from 2x3 to 20x24 and bigger, and everything inbetween of sheet film to all sorts of people who shoot a variety of sizes of sheet film cameras. While now there is
an Ilford Special order and maybe a Keith Canham Special order once a year, people used to be able to just call PW up any day of the week and say
" 200 sheets of 6x8 cut and notched for holders, 600 sheets of 3x4 cut and notched for holders and 400sheets of 7x17 cut and notched for holders, and 10 20x30 sheets"
( or insert any size you could imagine they'd cut and box the film for you ) and at the end of the week the happy postman would deliver them.
EK needed to have complete control of the operation so they declined. PW almost got master rolls of an EU film
to do the same thing, but a weak dollar and high transport costs ...
Like I said it would have been a win win win ( PW EK Consumer ) situation but ... instead Perez decided to sell ink jet printers on the cartoon network, and we know how that ended up.

NB23 · Mar 11, 2019

What the heck is veep, ek, pw? So many words and yet you abbreviate the important ones.

BrianShaw · Mar 11, 2019

NB23 said:
What the heck is veep, ek, pw? So many words and yet you abbreviate the important ones.

Veep = VP = Vice-President
EK = Eastman Kodak
No Go = head wagging horizontally.
Thousands and thousands and thousands = billions
Happy postman = USPS letter carrier working final shift before retirement.
PW = Providence Women. Okay, I guessed on that one.

removed account4 · Mar 11, 2019

BrianShaw said:
Veep = VP = Vice-President
EK = Eastman Kodak
No Go = head wagging horizontally.
PW = Providence Women. Okay, I guessed on that one.

LOL ( laugh out loud )
VEEP under president
EK eastmen koduck
NOGO "get outta here "
PW Photo Warehouse
W0KKA W0KKA W0KKA - fozzy bear said it
BORK BORK BORK - Swedish chef said this
JEETJET - Did you eat yet?
AXEHEAD,QUARTER-HOG, QU'HOG, QUOHOG - big clam
BIG CHEESE - guy above the VEEP

Paul Verizzo · Mar 11, 2019

Toasty said:
I'm not going to pretend like I can read financial reports with any authority, but they have stated that they are profitable.

Let's say that PPF is sold off to a company who will do great with it, all the manufacturing of the film it's self is made by Eastman Kodak... That's really quite scary. EK is a bloated, slowly sinking barge. They have paid off some 200 million in debt in the past few years but are still not profitable right now. Even if we survive this sale, what could happen in the next few years? All of Kodak's film offerings are lashed to a boat anchor. In a dream world, PPF would be sold off to a film company like Ilford or ADOX and the Kodak film manufacturing would be spun off to safety as it's own entity. I'd imagine it would be better for tax reasons to not be just one company.

It's quite worrisome, I was hoping not to have to worry about all this for another decade at least. Losing color film would be a huge loss, but I would still be shooting b&w. With Tetenal's future uncertain and them making all of Ilford's chemicals it could all go south very quickly.

Way, way too pessimistic. Have you been over to www.kodak.com lately to see what they are doing? Into technologies and industries that I can't even begin to comprehend. And, I love it, splashy Kodak clothing at 21 Forever. I would have bought a T-shirt, but sold out in my size.

And Vision 3 movie film? They are still improving it, and bringing out new 8mm and 16mm offerings in color and B&W reversal.

They are not going under, they have gone lean and focused. They are profitable.

It would be a natural thing for them to bring back PPF. Hell, they're making the stuff we want right now! And again, a lot of new offerings of revived films in the last year or two. TMZ, Ektachrome, I think there are another one or two. (WHY NO PLUS-X?)

Vincent Peri · Mar 12, 2019

I just checked Kodak's stock price (symbol KODK). It is $3.65-$3.70 per share as of today, 3/12/19. It is up 47% since the beginning of the year ($2.50 up to $3.65 a share).

Not too shabby, huh?

Paul Verizzo · Mar 12, 2019

Mark Twain speaking for Kodak: “The reports of my death are greatly exaggerated.”

Kodak, whether the core or Alaris, is alive and well. It will never be the behemoth it was; but now if they would only bring back Plus-X, I'd be 100% film happy with their offerings. I was "forced" into buying some Ultrafine/Kentmere 100 a few days ago to get a conventional (cubic grain) film, might as well go on the cheap. But I'd be happy to pay the $70+ for a roll of PX, just as I am for TX.

peoplemerge · Mar 12, 2019

For those asking for Plus-X, they still make and sell Double-X in 16 and 35mm 100ft rolls. Worth trying?

Paul Verizzo · Mar 12, 2019

No, they are so different. Especially in grain. PX has an RMS of 10 (same as 400 ISO TMY!), Tri-X, 17. XX is 14. Why pay for almost the grain of Tri-X for half the speed?

I shot some many years ago and all I can say is, not impressed. Grain in a movie is less objectionable than still, it shows up as kinda swirly stuff since no frame is the same as the next.

It's not that I think PX is some kind of film superior to FP4, etc. It's just a great film and it's a gap in the current Kodak lineup of the three T-Max's and Tri-X. In fact, to me, it's TMX that should be dropped. The only specification advantage over TMY is a grain RMS of 8. TMY's sharpness is equal or superior depending on the contrast. So why lose two stops for a bit better grain?

IlFuKo · Mar 12, 2019

I have heard from a Lab owner that they are going to release P3200 in 120.

ME Super · Mar 13, 2019

+1 that's great news!

Kodak Alaris for Sale?

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