Kodak Alaris discontinues BW400CN film

RattyMouse · Aug 20, 2014

Truzi said:
It's sad to see a film discontinued, even if it's one I don't use. I think I have a different view on things, though.
Fuji and Kodak cannot scale easily. Each, in my opinion, is stronger in different areas (not saying either is bad in other areas). It seems they are striking a balance, and hopefully will not compete certain things out of existence as the market shrinks.
Fortunately Ilford is in a good position with their offerings.

With the exception of movie film, I think the film market shrinkage has reached its nadir. Consumers have transitioned over to digital, completely. Those who shoot film are those who don't want to shoot digitally. They could if they wanted to, they just don't. Whom does anyone know who shooots film and is ready to transition over to digital? No one. That ship has sailed. Many times over.

So film now exists for the faithful. Once the movie film segment has collapsed, then it will be complete. Fujifilm's movie film sales ceased a few years ago. They now exist on only consumer films. We will have to see what film Fuji discontinues next for any clue as to how right sized they may or may not be. The loss of 400X was a huge blow, as that leaves a gaping hole in their E-6 line. One would have hoped that such an opening would not have been created.

MattKing · Aug 20, 2014

I wonder if this is a sign that Kodak Alaris is going to focus its film energies in a different manner.

I would guess that BW400CN was primarily sold through outlets like grocery stores, drug stores and other mainstream retail outlets. Until very recently, a lot of film was sold through outlets like that, even if most of it was colour film.

The sorts of places one would rarely find Ilford films (just to use one interesting example).

If Kodak Alaris has decided to market its film products in a different way, maybe this is a sign of the change.

Maybe we will see more C41 develop-able black and white films - in larger sizes.

TheFlyingCamera · Aug 20, 2014

I really don't think the latitude from C-41 is going to make a huge difference considering that even traditional non-chromogenic b/w films have more latitude than most printing papers can record (with the possible exception of say platinum or albumen). And the orange mask in BW400CN really made for some printing challenges- I typically printed it at grade 3- 3.5 when enlarging it on silver paper, and exposures ran to the 60+ second range at f8 instead of 15-30 @ f11 for regular b/w films. And it would be useless for alt-process printing because of the orange mask.

Roger Cole · Aug 21, 2014

This film may have been in the public eye in Europe, but the only film I ever see locally is Fuji consumer color neg, occasionally Kodak Gold, and Kodak disposable cameras loaded with color neg, presumably that same Kodak Gold. I haven't seen a roll of black and white, conventional or chromogenic, in a store other than a camera store in DECADES. Even in the 90s I had people express surprise to me that black and white film still existed.

MattKing · Aug 21, 2014

Roger Cole said:
This film may have been in the public eye in Europe, but the only film I ever see locally is Fuji consumer color neg, occasionally Kodak Gold, and Kodak disposable cameras loaded with color neg, presumably that same Kodak Gold. I haven't seen a roll of black and white, conventional or chromogenic, in a store other than a camera store in DECADES. Even in the 90s I had people express surprise to me that black and white film still existed.

I see it in quite a few grocery and drug stores around here (Vancouver, BC Canada).

lxdude · Aug 21, 2014

MattKing said:
I see it in quite a few grocery and drug stores around here (Vancouver, BC Canada).

It is in the local CVS stores, and I saw it in a Walgreen's in NorCal a few years back.

lxdude · Aug 21, 2014

I have to admit here and now that the discontinuance of BW400CN is all my fault- I used it for the first time two weeks ago.

Maybe if I go digital everyone else will return to film...

Roger Cole · Aug 21, 2014

lxdude said:
I have to admit here and now that the discontinuance of BW400CN is all my fault- I used it for the first time two weeks ago.

Maybe if I go digital everyone else will return to film...

By all that's holy, please please do NOT use any more films you haven't already used before! Particularly, if you haven't already, Tri-X, TMY-2, ANYTHING by Ilford, any Kodak color neg or any of the few remaining E6 emulsions!

IloveTLRs · Aug 21, 2014

I shot this film a few times, but ironically I didn't think much of it until I developed it in Rodinal. I never tried printing it. It's a shame to see any film discontinued.

RattyMouse · Aug 21, 2014

The title of this thread is misleading. Eastman Kodak discontinued this film, not Alaris. Kodak Alaris is at the mercy of Eastman.

Ricardo Miranda · Aug 21, 2014

RattyMouse said:
The title of this thread is misleading. Eastman Kodak discontinued this film, not Alaris. Kodak Alaris is at the mercy of Eastman.

It is in their discontnuation notice: "...Kodak Alaris is discontinuing KODAK PROFESSIONAL BW400CN Film."

RattyMouse · Aug 21, 2014

Ricardo Miranda said:
It is in their discontnuation notice: "...Kodak Alaris is discontinuing KODAK PROFESSIONAL BW400CN Film."

Who do you think decided to discontinue this film? Alaris or Eastman?

Ricardo Miranda · Aug 21, 2014

I'll leave that for others to speculate!
But, I won't be admired if it were both of them.

AgX · Aug 21, 2014

For all we know Kodak is manufacturing consumer still film by order from Kodak Alaris.
So it is Kodak Alaris to decide which film to market and to order from Kodak.

Of course this does not take away issue of films still sold out of stock and not yet actually manufactured for Kodak Alaris.
And of Kodalk deciding, for what reasons ever, not to manufacture some film/not to offer it to Kodak Alaris.

darkosaric · Aug 21, 2014

lxdude said:
I have to admit here and now that the discontinuance of BW400CN is all my fault- I used it for the first time two weeks ago.

Maybe if I go digital everyone else will return to film...

Just make sure that you use Kodak films, not Ilford and Adox .

lxdude · Aug 21, 2014

Maybe I'll just use discontinued films. I'll have to find Ektachrome and Elitechrome, Tech Pan and XX. I wonder if it would be safe to use older versions of current films???

miha · Aug 21, 2014

I have printed from 400CN on Ilford Multigrade paper with superb results, grainless, beautiful tonality. Just dial in maximum magenta and the film will practically print itself. Great loss I say...

LikeAPolaroid · Aug 21, 2014

Too much grainless for my taste. And I always hated that orange mask. XP2 Super is a better choice for me, when I really want C41 b/w (which is not that often, really).

Xmas · Aug 21, 2014

AgX said:
For all we know Kodak is manufacturing consumer still film by order from Kodak Alaris.
So it is Kodak Alaris to decide which film to market and to order from Kodak.

Of course this does not take away issue of films still sold out of stock and not yet actually manufactured for Kodak Alaris.
And of Kodalk deciding, for what reasons ever, not to manufacture some film/not to offer it to Kodak Alaris.

In effect they are and we are ie dependent on each link of the chain the retail brick or web buys at one price and marks up for risk... If we don't buy enough the shop buys less or marks up more...

It is cheaper by a large factor to buy agfa vista and scan and convert to mono. KA greedy...

EK closed down their UK and French coating lines 2005 so they can't coat low volume production economically. EK planned on milking the cow for last % of profit.

EK can coat and freeze a master roll at risk but won't do it twice... film is substantially materials cost with wages and plant maintenance secondary. See previous para.

KA and chain have done well in distribution in UK for BW400CN. But if we did not buy Boots won't order more and that will have rippled up the chain.

So it is our fault we have gone digital

- stamp out DPUG
- st...

Ilford have done better they have HP5+ and XP2+ in Boots (major pharmacy chain).

I don't use any C41 from choice.

We have just closed the penultimate Lomo shop in London and it's mini lab. That makes C41 more difficult cause Lomo was open Sundays. My fault... see previous.

Peter de Groot · Aug 21, 2014

I have still 30 odd rolls left in 120 format. Not been cooled or anything. I wanted it to use as testfilm but I never bothered. Wanna have it?

markbarendt · Aug 21, 2014

Peter de Groot said:
I have still 30 odd rolls left in 120 format. Not been cooled or anything. I wanted it to use as testfilm but I never bothered. Wanna have it?

I'll take it if the postage isn't to bad. USA 81137

Pioneer · Aug 21, 2014

I for one am disappointed. Obviously Ilford will be getting my business here since they are the "last film standing."

I did use this film alongside the traditional b&w films as it provided certain unique advantages. I could shoot at ISO200, 400, 800, and even 1600 on the same roll and still develop it all together. I could develop it in the same batch as all my other color films. I know this isn't critically important to APUGers but it is wonderfully easy to scan, even allowing dust controls.

It didn't take the place of regular black & white, but it is still sad to lose options. But obviously Kodak was right in this case. Not many are sad to see this one go. It looks as if I am one of the few who regularly used it.

Xmas · Aug 21, 2014

Pioneer said:
I for one am disappointed. Obviously Ilford will be getting my business here since they are the "last film standing."

I did use this film alongside the traditional b&w films as it provided certain unique advantages. I could shoot at ISO200, 400, 800, and even 1600 on the same roll and still develop it all together. I could develop it in the same batch as all my other color films. I know this isn't critically important to APUGers but it is wonderfully easy to scan, even allowing dust controls.

It didn't take the place of regular black & white, but it is still sad to lose options. But obviously Kodak was right in this case. Not many are sad to see this one go. It looks as if I am one of the few who regularly used it.

Not true APUG is only a small part of the film community some one has being during it as it is still stocked in most of our large pharmacy (drug) store chain shops. It is the only Kodak mono they stock.

It was also the only mono film in the duty free at local international airport.

I used it for test shots to get a fast turn around.

EK hiked cine 15% Jan14 and KA seem to have hiked still in Ja resently this will reduce volume ~ further.

I'd imagine TMax 100 is next to fail on volume or maybe Double-X, need to buy some Orwo cine before Kodaks next announcement just in case.

The Ilford XP2 is a good substitute for you - I've used 1600 for XP2+ and it was noisy but I got photos.

PKM-25 · Aug 21, 2014

Xmas said:
I'd imagine TMax 100 is next to fail on volume

I *highly* doubt that, both Tmax films are in a solid class by them selves, I suspect they would be among the very last to go.

Colin Corneau · Aug 21, 2014

Good riddance...horrible film I could never get good prints out of.

I get that it was designed to work with 1-Hour printers, and maybe for that it was ideal but it was a POS in the darkroom. For C-41 B&W Ilford's XP2 is miles above -- prints better, looks better and seems sharper.

Hopefully this is a sign that their core B&W products -- Tri-X, TMax etc -- can be more secure now.

Kodak Alaris discontinues BW400CN film

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