Kodak ‘Investigating What it Would Take’ to Bring Back Kodachrome

[Sirius Glass]

Good photographers do not need fast turn around. They know when the got the photograph.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Amen to that one!

PE

 

[Nzoomed]

Restarting Kodachrome would cannibalize sales of new Ektachrome. I don't know if there is enough demand among still photographers to make Ektachrome sustainable, and like many, suspect the main driving force behind the re-emergence of Ektachrome relates to Kodak's Super 8 film initiative. Unless Kodak sees some market in Super 8, Kodachrome's return is unlikely. Since most Super8 film will eventually be scanned, software could be used to make Ektachrome look like Kodachrome.

I firmly believe super8 is the driving force behind Ektachrome's return, mainly because people want a film that can be projected, which Vision3 cannot do because its a negative film.

I know that Kodak lost alot of super8 sales after Kodachrome was dropped, this was because Kodachrome was the best super8 stock available and had finest grain etc, not to mention that people preferred its colour!
16mm will contribute somewhat too to the sales of Ektachrome, and even a small amount of 35mm will be used potentially for cine film, such as three kings.

 

[jvo]

"It will be HUGE! And the Mexicans will pay for it!!!!" - the donald.

 

[MattKing]

"It will be HUGE! And the Mexicans will pay for it!!!!" - the donald.

Don't you mean "Bigly"?

 

[jvo]

Yeah, bigly too - so huge, it's bigly!!

(alternative facts)

 

[Sirius Glass]

It is Trump's fault that slide film stopped selling so well.

 

[Mackinaw]

From Dennis Olbrich, President of Kodak Alaris:

"While the ever-popular Kodachrome is not off the table, it's unlikely to make a comeback in the near future. "I would love for it to be Kodachrome, obviously," says Olbrich. "It's such an iconic film – that rich saturation, the graininess that people love. But it’s a very difficult proposition to get that whole infrastructure back in place."

http://photorumors.com/2017/01/26/bringing-back-kodak-kodachrome-film-is-unlikely/

 

[Europan]

I firmly believe super8 is the driving force behind Ektachrome's return, mainly because people want a film that can be projected, which Vision3 cannot do because its a negative film.

Nothing is being done about projectors. The youngest 8-S projectors are, who knows precisely, 20 years old? Kodakers are not giving much thought on projection. Worse still, film manufacturers are not actively seeking collaboration with equipment manufacturers. When I wanted to start a joint project with Fuji some years ago I got a reply of the tone show us your patent, then we might consider beginning talks. They wouldn’t even ask what it is about. Dismissive

 

[flavio81]

Nothing is being done about projectors. The youngest 8-S projectors are, who knows precisely, 20 years old?

... and how this is a problem?

Lots of us here are using cameras that were built fifty (50) years ago. Cameras are far more complex, delicate and harder to repair than projectors. Even enlargers are more delicate and harder to service than a projector.

 

[railwayman3]

... and how this is a problem?

Lots of us here are using cameras that were built fifty (50) years ago. Cameras are far more complex, delicate and harder to repair than projectors. Even enlargers are more delicate and harder to service than a projector.

Agreed.....but I think the point was the lack of availablity of new projector equipment. While most of us here would see s/h gear as quite acceptable and often a bargain, a lot of modern buyers would never consider anything that wasn't new (and probably available on the web for next-day delivery ! )

 

[klownshed]

Kodak appear to be backtracking already. Unsurprisingly.

http://time.com/4649349/kodak-film-photography/

Via:

https://petapixel.com/2017/01/27/kodak-backtracks-says-difficult-revive-kodachrome/

 

[RattyMouse]

Kodak appear to be backtracking already. Unsurprisingly.

http://time.com/4649349/kodak-film-photography/

Via:

https://petapixel.com/2017/01/27/kodak-backtracks-says-difficult-revive-kodachrome/

Yep....VERY clearly Kodak says that Kodachrome is NOT coming back. This entire feeding frenzy, as usual, has been for naught.

The reasons why Kodachrome folded up have not gone away and no one is going to invest millions upon millions of dollars trying to fight back those reasons.

Meanwhile, I am sure that this thread will go on another 20 pages or more.

 

[Nzoomed]

Kodak appear to be backtracking already. Unsurprisingly.

http://time.com/4649349/kodak-film-photography/

Via:

https://petapixel.com/2017/01/27/kodak-backtracks-says-difficult-revive-kodachrome/

Yes this does not surprise me either, but I dont accept their environmental reason as an excuse.

The chemicals were up to environmental standard years ago, and we know this has nothing to do with the dye couplers or chemistry to process the stuff, which only brings it down to the film itself. If this is indeed an issue, then there will likely be the same issues with bringing back many of the other films Kodak intend, particularly B&W films.
Im pretty sure all the toxic chemicals were dropped many years ago, like cadmium compounds etc. I do remember PE saying that it was alot of work to re-engineer newer "safer" chemicals for many of these films.

But I would love to know if anything was "environmentally" dangerous in Kodachrome, or any other modern film such as E100g for example.

Now Im not trying to say that it would be easy for kodak to produce Kodachrome again by any means.

But what we do know that they still have the coater capable of producing Kodachrome and the necessary resources to make all the chemistry.

The only barrier at the end of the day is $$$ for the R&D needed to get it up and running smoothly again.

Perhaps something will change in the future

BTW... Im curious to know how often Kodak actually produced a coating run of Kodachrome, the rumour was that they kept a master roll frozen and cut it up as needed during the year, these runs were supposedly made only every year or two from what ive read. Its also speculated that the last batch was made some years before it was dropped, but who knows.

I doubt PE would even know this, as I think he had already left EK by this stage, but he would have probably been aware if it was practice for Kodak to cold store films for extended periods, (particularity slow selling lines) to make their stock last longer between production runs.

But if Kodak was only doing one coating of Kodachrome per year or two, then this would still have been a difficult task, whether it was 1 year or 9 years between coatings, chemistry would still have to be produced and tested, and then the coater would need to be properly configured and test coats conducted after having coating various other films with a thicker coating than Kodachrome's.

 

[flavio81]

Yep....VERY clearly Kodak says that Kodachrome is NOT coming back. This entire feeding frenzy, as usual, has been for naught. (...) Meanwhile, I am sure that this thread will go on another 20 pages or more.

You ought to appreciate the fun of participating in such threads. I do. It's fun and entertaining.

On with this thread! Show must go on!

 

[flavio81]

Yes this does not surprise me either, but I dont accept their environmental reason as an excuse.

The chemicals were up to environmental standard years ago, and we know this has nothing to do with the dye couplers or chemistry to process the stuff, which only brings it down to the film itself. If this is indeed an issue, then there will likely be the same issues with bringing back many of the other films Kodak intend, particularly B&W films.
Im pretty sure all the toxic chemicals were dropped many years ago, like cadmium compounds etc. I do remember PE saying that it was alot of work to re-engineer newer "safer" chemicals for many of these films.

But I would love to know if anything was "environmentally" dangerous in Kodachrome, or any other modern film such as E100g for example.

I would guess nothing is/was environmentaly dangerous there.
While on the other hand i've read from reputable sources that Panatomic-X had to be dropped because it relied on a compound that was not allowed anymore due to safety/EPA/etc reasons.

BTW... Im curious to know how often Kodak actually produced a coating run of Kodachrome, the rumour was that they kept a master roll frozen and cut it up as needed during the year, these runs were supposedly made only every year or two from what ive read.

Most likely, since, from what i've understood from some of PE's posts, even during the 90s the demand wasn't so high. And those master rolls are big!

 

[MattKing]

It was the need to throw away larger and larger portions of the master rolls due to low demand that forced discontinuation of Kodachrome.
There are lots of PE posts that say that.

 

[RattyMouse]

You ought to appreciate the fun of participating in such threads. I do. It's fun and entertaining.

On with this thread! Show must go on!

The first 500 times it was fun.

 

[Theo Sulphate]

Don't you mean "Bigly"?

That's "big league", as in: "The Chinese will re-introduce Kodachrome and sell it to their own market, big league."

Yeah, bigly too - so huge, it's bigly!!

(alternative facts)

There may not be alternative facts, but there may be other facts or unreported facts, such as many stores having boxes of unsold Kodachrome sitting on the shelves at the time of its discontinuance. I didn't realize that until PE mentioned it.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Yep....VERY clearly Kodak says that Kodachrome is NOT coming back. This entire feeding frenzy, as usual, has been for naught.

The reasons why Kodachrome folded up have not gone away and no one is going to invest millions upon millions of dollars trying to fight back those reasons.

Meanwhile, I am sure that this thread will go on another 20 pages or more.

While I entirely agree with you on the first part, you are too pessimistic on the second part. This thread will expand like the dreaded Kodak has been deleted thread and go well over 3500 posts and surpass the deleted thread.

 

[flavio81]

While I entirely agree with you on the first part, you are too pessimistic on the second part. This thread will expand like the dreaded Kodak has been deleted thread and go well over 3500 posts and surpass the deleted thread.

Preach on, my brother!! Let's keep posting, to the infinite and beyond!!
3500 or bust!!
Eventually, OVER 9000!

 

[Nzoomed]

That's "big league", as in: "The Chinese will re-introduce Kodachrome and sell it to their own market, big league."



There may not be alternative facts, but there may be other facts or unreported facts, such as many stores having boxes of unsold Kodachrome sitting on the shelves at the time of its discontinuance. I didn't realize that until PE mentioned it.

I had heard of this myself too.

I think we should mainly concentrate on acquiring chemistry for processing, as there is lots of frozen kodachrome out there still. I myself will have a go If i can get the correct Dye couplers.

I am in talks with Chinese suppliers, I will update this thread when I hear back If they can produce the chemicals needed...

 

[jvo]

"I said this was bigly, really bigley - I talked to kodak, told them to bring it back, along with 800 jobs" - the donald.

(That ought be good for 20 more pages)

 

[keenmaster486]

"Or else there will be a 35% tax on Kodak, a 35% tax, because they can't - we don't win anymore! We don't win anymore. It's time to start winning again. This will be the best film ever made - it will be so great, your head will spin, believe me. It's time to make photography great again."

 

[JPR]

Well, I haven't been too active these last 3 years. The death of my main films and developer combinations that were working great have taken far too long to re-produce. And somewhere I lost momentum. Currently, I am trying with some Rollei films. My main stays were 125PX, Neopan 1600 and Kodachrome. Fall back was Pan-F from Ilford and I'm still using that one at least.

The news about Ektachrome and statements about Kodachrome really got my attention. Kodachrome was the main color film. The decision by Kodak Alaris dumbfounds me for two reasons:
1.) Why bring back a product that is available basically from Fuji?
2.) What is the background behind bringing any films back at all? What are the criteria and how will they proceed?

Kodachrome is one of those few products that has a very strong "authenticity value" and strong iconic, emotional links. I returned to it in 2005 realizing the value. The story went like this: my parents house burned down, I found the one family picture I could remember from the 80's. Don't ask how I managed to find a slide in that mess... Happend to have been taken on Kodachrome (didn't remember that). In spite of the fire and cracking it scanned very well in beautiful color.

Basically, I don't trust Kodak, and quit "auditioning" any of their films considering them an unpredictable risk. This announcement has me at least interested again. They should explain and try transparency and honesty with the customers about which film, why and what are the conditions. I depend on the film maker and need some level of predictability. It takes far too long for me to dial in a new film and process that is the result of some whimisical CEO decision to "invest in a new direction."

One thing is for sure, if they bring back an E6 film as a new "Kodachrome." They will eat through any goodwill they started to regain by bringing back Ektachrome... That will feel like a lie. Just tell me the facts why after evaluation it's not possible.

Just my 2 cents.

Oh, attached a scan of one of my last KR64 shots. It's a scan that also has some element of pastels, even though it is the last batch of Kodachrome. No problems to scan, no dust, what are the guys around here complaining about? The scanning idea with developing at Kodak is brilliant by the way. If it were high quality, I would do it as convenience, even though I can scan.