Kodak ‘Investigating What it Would Take’ to Bring Back Kodachrome

Nzoomed · Jan 11, 2017

My question is if Kodachrome was to return, then what would happen with the stockpiles of film in everyones freezers?

If Kodak move on from K14, then all this film is useless, on the other hand if the new Kodachrome was K14 compatible, then Kodak would have a huge amount of processing to do from everyone's frozen film, (yes there were people that missed dwaynes deadline also)

But if Kodak want to sell more film, they may decide to change it enough that the old films cant be processed.

flavio81 · Jan 11, 2017

Nzoomed said:
then Kodak would have a huge amount of processing to do from everyone's frozen film, (yes there were people that missed dwaynes deadline also)

This is a good stuff too for them, if they decide to charge for it.

Prest_400 · Jan 11, 2017

flavio81 said:
You can also have scans with "lack of interpretation" if you're the central lab. Calibrate scanning to the colors and exposure to a properly exposed current batch of film, and scan all films under those parameters.

The cloud server I've seen it working through 3rd party services or own servers, but with a deadline of X time (a week or so) to retrieve the scans before wiping. Limitations of service or perhaps incurring heavier costs with extended storage. Perhaps could be adjusted to individual customer...

jnanian said:
i've skranned slides ( 35mm-4x5 ) for 20 years ( off and on )
it is no more or less labor intensive than scanning anything else.
a mini lab that processes a roll of c41 film uses an automated process,
to get the images on a cee dee, and if you ask happy D ( dwaynes in parsons kansas )
to process and put your slides on cee dee it takes no more or less time than it would for negative film
and otherwise it would cost more $$ &c ...

Yes! Hadn't thought about the pure automatic process and top of mind went for these newer labs that do offer somekind of grading. As Flavio comments, a properly (IT8?) calibrated workflow should give spot on slide scanning. I am wondering if the auto modes on minilab scanners for negative would be the same, bearing in mind the orange mask and such. May be a bit of judgement that auto scanning doesn't always work well.

(curious to have some fast paced discussion around and realtime adding quotes)

Nzoomed said:
My question is if Kodachrome was to return, then what would happen with the stockpiles of film in everyones freezers?

If Kodak move on from K14, then all this film is useless, on the other hand if the new Kodachrome was K14 compatible, then Kodak would have a huge amount of processing to do from everyone's frozen film, (yes there were people that missed dwaynes deadline also)

But if Kodak want to sell more film, they may decide to change it enough that the old films cant be processed.

In the case of an E6 Kodachrome, well, K14 is as it has been for 6 years. More processing? Better to keep the lines moving. Anyways, the same could be thought about frozen E6 film or C41 or B&W. As long as it's not like the guy who spent $10K (or more was it?) to develop a huge batch, it shouldn't saturate operations.

480sparky · Jan 11, 2017

Nzoomed said:
My question is if Kodachrome was to return, then what would happen with the stockpiles of film in everyones freezers?
............

I would continue to shoot and develop it like I have been.... in my darkroom...... as the black & white film it truly is.

removed account4 · Jan 11, 2017

Prest_400 said:
Yes! Hadn't thought about the pure automatic process and top of mind went for these newer labs that do offer somekind of grading. As Flavio comments, a properly (IT8?) calibrated workflow should give spot on slide scanning. I am wondering if the auto modes on minilab scanners for negative would be the same, bearing in mind the orange mask and such. May be a bit of judgement that auto scanning doesn't always work well.

i've only seen "mask" on slide or color negative film i processed in black and white developers
or had to print through when i enlarged them onto photo paper ... the films i have skrannnnnned 's mask
has never posed a problem, and i would imagine a mini lab, even one that has been around the block
with equipment that is not from 2017 would have no trouble electifying the images, seeing i regularly do it
with a skrannnnnnnnnner from maybe 2006, and before that from the 1990s .. it only posed a problem if i over exposed negative film
or under exposed e6 film by more than lets say, 3 stops, other than that, no issue,push button technology ...

pentaxuser · Jan 11, 2017

pdeeh said:
but, in all truth, a bit of a palaver at APUG is almost certainly of zero interest to anyone outside APUG.
If Kodak based its development, R&D, sales & marketing efforts on what they read here ... well, you can fill in the rest

You might be right but I wonder what its other source is or sources are for considering a revival of Kodachrome apart from APUG. I have seen some "what might have been" laments for Kodachrome here on APUG that I'd rate alongside Marlon Brando's taxi speech in "On The Waterfront"

" Kid, it ain't your night. We're taking the price on Ektachrome"

pentaxuser

pdeeh · Jan 11, 2017

There are many other sources for such data, and I'd hope any good market analyst would be able to identify and investigate them.

Basing one's worldwide product and marketing strategy on the opinions ofcouple of hundred middle aged men with axes to grind wouldn't be that smart, in my opinion.

But what do I know?

wiltw · Jan 11, 2017

Vilk said:
Anybody out there want to project a 36 MP full frame digital on screen next to a Kodachrome projection?

Project the 36MPixel digital image with WHAT?...a measly 4K projector that can scarcely match the vertical resolution of a 20D?!

kb244 · Jan 11, 2017

480sparky said:
I would continue to shoot and develop it like I have been.... in my darkroom...... as the black & white film it truly is.

Isn't K14 a really difficult process to do yourself if you can get the chemistry?

Prof_Pixel · Jan 11, 2017

kb244 said:
Isn't K14 a really difficult process to do yourself if you can get the chemistry?

He's processing it as B&W film.

Poisson Du Jour · Jan 11, 2017

Wayne said:
What were these quality control issues? I never noticed any.

Professional printers are the ones who noticed a lot! It was also photographers buying the "big bickie" prints that also created the most hue and cry with surface imperfections that appeared undetected after printing. Crimping, scuffing, stickiness, wrinkles, separation of base material, contrast irregularities... a very long list! Sometimes entire rolls had these and any manner else of problems and were summarily ripped out and sent back, with weeks and weeks passing before any replacement stock came, and then oftem the same problems were discovered.

Sirius Glass · Jan 11, 2017

The cry of an APUGger: We don't need no stinkin' quality control! We want our Kodachrome!

Photo Engineer · Jan 11, 2017

Skranning film John? Is that a fit topic for APUG?

But, on a serious note - OMG People, what are you thinking. This ain't gonna happen.

PE

RattyMouse · Jan 11, 2017

Kodachrome is NEVER coming back. Film is more likely to disappear than Kodak bringing back Kodachrome.

RattyMouse · Jan 11, 2017

Photo Engineer said:
Skranning film John? Is that a fit topic for APUG?

But, on a serious note - OMG People, what are you thinking. This ain't gonna happen.

PE

I know PE....nothing makes this place look more like an insane asylum than the continual re-emergence of Kodachrome threads.

Sirius Glass · Jan 11, 2017

When Kodachrome comes back I will be forty years younger, forty pound lighter, have a full head of hair and be independently wealthy. I am still incredibly handsome.

Photo Engineer · Jan 11, 2017

As I said then, ain't gonna happen.

removed account4 · Jan 11, 2017

Photo Engineer said:
Skranning film John? Is that a fit topic for APUG?

But, on a serious note - OMG People, what are you thinking. This ain't gonna happen.

PE

you forgot an A its skraaaaaaaaaning
but it will comeback, i read it on the internets

MattKing · Jan 11, 2017

Sirius Glass said:
When Kodachrome comes back I will be forty years younger, forty pound lighter, have a full head of hair and be independently wealthy.

But will you have found humility?

480sparky · Jan 11, 2017

kb244 said:
Isn't K14 a really difficult process to do yourself if you can get the chemistry?

Yes... even if the chemistry were ever available in the past. I soup it as b&w, which is what Kodachrome really is.

wiltw · Jan 11, 2017

kb244 said:
Isn't K14 a really difficult process to do yourself if you can get the chemistry?

There were few centers in the US which would process Kodachrome in its heyday, and eventually it got down to ONE lab (Dwayne's), which eventually closed. The curator of technology at the Kodak museum has said, "Unlike all the other color films, it's actually a black-and-white film. ... The color is added to it in processing. You can't do this at home. It's just not possible. And it was never really a mini-lab process." It was a complicated, expensive, and environmentally challenging K-14 process for Kodachrome which was a big part of the reason the film waned in popularity after the 1980s.

Sirius Glass · Jan 11, 2017

MattKing said:
But will you have found humility?

I am the humblest person I know. I am so humble that sometimes the words that come out of my mouth make me want to use mouthwash to remove the taste of humility.

480sparky · Jan 11, 2017

wiltw said:
There were few centers in the US which would process Kodachrome in its heyday, and eventually it got down to ONE lab (Dwayne's), which eventually closed. The curator of technology at the Kodak museum has said, "Unlike all the other color films, it's actually a black-and-white film. ... The color is added to it in processing. You can't do this at home. It's just not possible. And it was never really a mini-lab process."

I found a reference somewhere that one person was able to soup Kodachrome.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K-14_process

kb244 · Jan 11, 2017

wiltw said:
There were few centers in the US which would process Kodachrome in its heyday, and eventually it got down to ONE lab (Dwayne's), which eventually closed. The curator of technology at the Kodak museum has said, "Unlike all the other color films, it's actually a black-and-white film. ... The color is added to it in processing. You can't do this at home. It's just not possible. And it was never really a mini-lab process."

Ahh... So it's like a layered bw film where the colors are 'applied' to the appropriate portion for the effects.

I had forgotten that it could be processed as a black and white forgoing the color additions.

480sparky · Jan 11, 2017

kb244 said:
Ahh... So it's like a layered bw film where the colors are 'applied' to the appropriate portion for the effects.........

Steps
The layers in the film are, top-to-bottom: blue sensitive (yellow), yellow filter, blue-green sensitive (magenta), blue-red sensitive (cyan), acetate base, rem-jet antihalation backing..

The processing cycle is as follows

Backing removal: An alkaline bath softens the cellulose acetate phthalate binder. A spray wash and buffer removes the rem-jet anti-halation backing.
First Developer: All exposed silver halide crystals are developed to metallic silver via a PQ developer. The yellow filter layer becomes opaque because it has a combination of Lippmann emulsion (very tiny grains) and Carey Lea silver (metallic silver particles that are small enough that they are yellow rather than gray.)
Wash
Red light re-exposure through the base: This makes the remaining undeveloped silver halide in the cyan layers developable.
Cyan developer: The solution contains a color developer and a cyan coupler. These are colorless in solution. After the color developer develops the silver, the oxidized developer reacts with the cyan coupler to form cyan dye. The dye is much less soluble than either the developer or the coupler so it stays in the red layer of the film.
Wash
Blue light re-exposure from the top: This makes the remaining undeveloped grains in the blue sensitive layer (the yellow layer) developable. The now opaque yellow filter layers prevents the blue light from exposing the magenta layer (the green sensitive layer, which is also sensitive to blue light). It is important to avoid stray printing light exposing the film base of film.
Yellow developer: Analogous to the cyan developer.
Wash
Magenta developer: This contains a chemical fogging agent that makes all of the remaining undeveloped silver developable. If everything has worked correctly, nearly all of this silver is in the magenta layers. The developer and magenta coupler work just like the cyan and yellow developers to produce magenta dye that is insoluble and stays in the film.
Wash
Conditioner: Prepares the metallic silver for the bleach step.
Bleach: (Iron EDTA) Oxidises the metallic silver to silver halide. The bleach must be aerated. The former ferricyanide bleach did not require aeration and did not require a conditioner.
Fix: Converts the silver halide to soluble compounds which are then dissolved and washed from the film
Wash: Washes the fixer out of the film.
Rinse: Contains a wetting agent to reduce water spots.
Dry

Kodak ‘Investigating What it Would Take’ to Bring Back Kodachrome

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