Kodak ‘Investigating What it Would Take’ to Bring Back Kodachrome

Photo Engineer · Feb 1, 2017

When they decided at EK, to bring back Ektachrome, this process surely included research on some aspect of bringing back Kodachrome.

This would be the source of the comments. Bringing Kodachrome back is so marginally worth it, that it has little to no chance to come back.

PE

Theo Sulphate · Feb 1, 2017

Photo Engineer said:
... it has little to no chance to come back.

PE

Wait! Are you saying then that it has even a little chance? A nonzero chance?! Is it easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for Kodachrome to be re-introduced?

Think of all the unlikely events this past year:

- Britain leaves the EU
- Cubs win World Series
- Trump elected President
- Ektachrome poised for return

This is an omen. Rejoice! I think Kodachrome is coming back.

klownshed · Feb 1, 2017

If the film photography market is to survive in the long term, eventually we will need new cameras to be manufactured to keep driving the market along and attract new people in.

There's a limit to how long the market can be sustained using increasingly old equipment that is getting harder to service and repair by the day.

Kodak thinking about reintroducing an old film is all well and good but if one of the big players thinks about manufacturing a new (or reintroduce an old) camera then things really will be looking up.

Vinyl records have only seen a modest increase in sales yet new record players are available and help push sales of albums.

falotico · Feb 1, 2017

Think of all the unlikely events this past year:

- Britain leaves the EU
- Cubs win World Series
- Trump elected President
- Ektachrome poised for return

This is an omen. Rejoice! I think Kodachrome is coming back.[/QUOTE]

Trump was elected to bring back Kodachrome? I'll pay you fifty bucks if I can watch you say that to Nancy Pelosi's face.

Cholentpot · Feb 1, 2017

Theo Sulphate said:
Wait! Are you saying then that it has even a little chance? A nonzero chance?! Is it easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for Kodachrome to be re-introduced?

Think of all the unlikely events this past year:

- Britain leaves the EU
- Cubs win World Series
- Trump elected President
- Ektachrome poised for return

This is an omen. Rejoice! I think Kodachrome is coming back.

Ferrania is bring a film out too. Maybe someone will roll out a brand new camera...

flavio81 · Feb 1, 2017

Theo Sulphate said:
Wait! Are you saying then that it has even a little chance? A nonzero chance?! Is it easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for Kodachrome to be re-introduced?

Think of all the unlikely events this past year:

- Britain leaves the EU
- Cubs win World Series
- Trump elected President
- Ektachrome poised for return

This is an omen. Rejoice! I think Kodachrome is coming back.

Preach on! The signs of the second coming of Kodachrome are there! The omens are clear!
The stars align!

Also
- new brand of film and new B/W film introduced this year (Ferrania P30)

keenmaster486 · Feb 1, 2017

This is why I keep saying somebody needs to Kickstarter a new inexpensive box camera geared towards hipsters and millennials in the same way Fuji markets Instax stuff.

Give it enough charm and keep the price low enough and there will be a market for it.

bvy · Feb 1, 2017

It's getting hard to tell sarcasm from sincerity in here.

Nzoomed · Feb 1, 2017

flavio81 said:
Preach on! The signs of the second coming of Kodachrome are there! The omens are clear!
The stars align!

Also
- new brand of film and new B/W film introduced this year (Ferrania P30)

If Ferrania can make a film that has not probably been around for a few decades, it should be a walk in the park for Kodak to reintroduce older films!

I look forward to whatever films they decide to reintroduce.
Im also sure its very possible for Kodak to make a batch of Kodachrome if they really wanted, (its essentially a multiple layer B&W film) I think the processing side is what is currently putting Kodak off having to make an investment currently.

I think another model for processing the stuff should be explored, I really hope Kodak has been looking at the works of those who have experimented with processing it.

Photo Engineer · Feb 1, 2017

I cannot be more sincere than one that has BTDT!

PE

Wayne · Feb 2, 2017

Nzoomed said:
If Ferrania can make a film that has not probably been around for a few decades, it should be a walk in the park for Kodak to reintroduce older films!

I look forward to whatever films they decide to reintroduce.
Im also sure its very possible for Kodak to make a batch of Kodachrome if they really wanted, (its essentially a multiple layer B&W film) I think the processing side is what is currently putting Kodak off having to make an

Nzoomed said:

If Ferrania can make a film that has not probably been around for a few decades, it should be a walk in the park for Kodak to reintroduce older films!

I look forward to whatever films they decide to reintroduce.
Im also sure its very possible for Kodak to make a batch of Kodachrome if they really wanted, (its essentially a multiple layer B&W film) I think the processing side is what is currently putting Kodak off having to make an investment currently.

I think another model for processing the stuff should be explored, I really hope Kodak has been looking at the works of those who have experimented with processing it.

Click to expand...

investment currently.

I think another model for processing the stuff should be explored, I really hope Kodak has been looking at the works of those who have experimented with processing it.

Please restate your qualifications and experience for making such statements. I mean other than "I have long experience with opinions and keyboards."

flavio81 · Feb 2, 2017

Nzoomed said:
If Ferrania can make a film that has not probably been around for a few decades, it should be a walk in the park for Kodak to reintroduce older films!

This is not fair to Kodak engineers.

A B&W film is simple stuff compared to a color film. And Kodachrome had extra manufacturing complexity involved compared to a regular color negative film.

RPC · Feb 2, 2017

Nzoomed said:
Im also sure its very possible for Kodak to make a batch of Kodachrome if they really wanted, (its essentially a multiple layer B&W film) I think the processing side is what is currently putting Kodak off having to make an investment currently.

You keep forgetting the huge lack of interest in the buying public.

And as PE has said, Kodachrome is a difficult film to make. Remember?

Nzoomed · Feb 2, 2017

RPC said:
You keep forgetting the huge lack of interest in the buying public.

And as PE has said, Kodachrome is a difficult film to make. Remember?

Difficult to coat, yes, its layers are thinner than most films, but their coater is capable of doing it.
Im sure they have the expertise to do it. How did they get on all these years each time they had to coat a run of the stuff?

As I said, Kodak needs to do market research, the film market has changed since its demise and there is a new group of film shooters out there such as myself.

If Kodak did better marketing before they dropped kodachrome due to falling sales, I myself would have started shooting it. Im sure others would have also.

Nzoomed · Feb 2, 2017

flavio81 said:
This is not fair to Kodak engineers.

A B&W film is simple stuff compared to a color film. And Kodachrome had extra manufacturing complexity involved compared to a regular color negative film.

Well i was referring to B&W films here, not just Kodachrome. I believe there are B&W films that Kodak are looking at reintroducing.

flavio81 · Feb 2, 2017

Nzoomed said:
Well i was referring to B&W films here, not just Kodachrome. I believe there are B&W films that Kodak are looking at reintroducing.

Yes, but which one?

Panatomic-X was killed because of environmental reasons, this one can't be reintroduced easily.
Technical Pan was too much of a niche product and will have to compete with Adox CMS 20 which is readily available and Rollei ATP.
Plus-X could be, but the 100-speed B/W market is saturated
Tmax P3200 could be a possibility but I guess this one is a niche product, and they did not make it in 120 size where it would make more sense.
Verichrome Pan --- see comments for Plus-X, but perhaps this one could fare better.
Royal-X pan -- perhaps for 120 size or large format, still, a niche product

If they introduce a new B/W film, i hope it's a true infrared film.

Or perhaps a Super-XX (double X) kind of film that gives all the nice stuff from Plus-X but at ISO 200 speed.

Nzoomed · Feb 2, 2017

flavio81 said:
Yes, but which one?

Panatomic-X was killed because of environmental reasons, this one can't be reintroduced easily.
Technical Pan was too much of a niche product and will have to compete with Adox CMS 20 which is readily available and Rollei ATP.
Plus-X could be, but the 100-speed B/W market is saturated
Tmax P3200 could be a possibility but I guess this one is a niche product, and they did not make it in 120 size where it would make more sense.
Verichrome Pan --- see comments for Plus-X, but perhaps this one could fare better.
Royal-X pan -- perhaps for 120 size or large format, still, a niche product

If they introduce a new B/W film, i hope it's a true infrared film.

I dont think Kodak has quoted any film(s) in particular, but yes I agree, Im not sure what they intend to introduce, I had heard Plus-X and Pantatomic-X thrown around here. Obviously serious R&D would be required if banned chemicals exist in these films.

I agree the B&W market is flooded.

If Kodak concentrate on colour films, it would not bother me, I dont really shoot B&W anyway, but alot do.
There is tons of B&W films on the market, but very few choices for shooting in colour these days.

T-max and Tri-X are both popular B&W films anyway, I am really interested to know what Kodak do intend to reintroduce if its not a B&W film?

Perhaps they are looking at e100vs? That would be a big surprise if they did.

Photo Engineer · Feb 2, 2017

Nzoomed said:
Difficult to coat, yes, its layers are thinner than most films, but their coater is capable of doing it.
Im sure they have the expertise to do it. How did they get on all these years each time they had to coat a run of the stuff?

As I said, Kodak needs to do market research, the film market has changed since its demise and there is a new group of film shooters out there such as myself.

If Kodak did better marketing before they dropped kodachrome due to falling sales, I myself would have started shooting it. Im sure others would have also.

I think you will find among my posts the comment that K25 could not be coated on the new machine. It is very difficult to coat the entire family. I also surmised that Kodak did market research for Kodachrome when they did the Ektachrome work. And to finish things off, Kodak had an agresive advertising program for Kodachrome until about 1990 when sales fell below realistically sustainable manufacture. Then it was kept on mainly for nostalgia for people like APUG members who loved it. But it finally could not be sustained.

I guess you don't read my posts and those of others who know what is what.

PE

RPC · Feb 2, 2017

Nzoomed said:
If Kodak did better marketing before they dropped kodachrome due to falling sales, I myself would have started shooting it. Im sure others would have also.

Again you forget. It wasn't poor marketing that led to Kodachrome's demise. It was processing difficulty, superiority of E-6 films, digital, and other problems. The same is true today, even with increased film sales.

flavio81 · Feb 2, 2017

Nzoomed said:
Difficult to coat, yes, its layers are thinner than most films, but their coater is capable of doing it.
Im sure they have the expertise to do it. How did they get on all these years each time they had to coat a run of the stuff?

As I said, Kodak needs to do market research, the film market has changed since its demise and there is a new group of film shooters out there such as myself.

If Kodak did better marketing before they dropped kodachrome due to falling sales, I myself would have started shooting it. Im sure others would have also.

Allright, situate yourself in year 2000 aprox.

You can choose between shooting either Kodachrome 25, 64 or 200. Only in 135 format, so no medium format cameras allowed.
And wait for several weeks before receiving your film.

OR

You can choose between Ektachrome 100 Plus,
64,
64T,
64X,
100X,
160T,
320T,
Infrared

in many formats including 120 and sometimes 220,
and they can be pushed as well.
And also

Fujichrome Velvia
Fujichrome 64T, 100, 400, etc

and your lab is going to give your slides back in one day.

What do you choose?

Nzoomed · Feb 2, 2017

flavio81 said:
Allright, situate yourself in year 2000 aprox.

You can choose between shooting either Kodachrome 25, 64 or 200. Only in 135 format, so no medium format cameras allowed.
And wait for several weeks before receiving your film.

OR

You can choose between Ektachrome 100 Plus,
64,
64T,
64X,
100X,
160T,
320T,
Infrared

in many formats including 120 and sometimes 220,
and they can be pushed as well.
And also

Fujichrome Velvia
Fujichrome 64T, 100, 400, etc

and your lab is going to give your slides back in one day.

What do you choose?

I know where you are coming from, being such a niche product even then, I would not have used it for my everyday use perhaps, but if I was on a holiday somewhere special, I certainly would have leaped at the chance.
If you are a professional photographer who wants a fast turnaround, well its obvious you would have to go with E6 or C41.

Market is a different landscape today.
Even for E6 I have about a week wait minimum.
Time does not really bother me, especially for Kodachrome. I would have not considered it as my everyday film, even then. But if i truly want to capture something special, I think the wait is worth it.

Nzoomed · Feb 2, 2017

Photo Engineer said:
I think you will find among my posts the comment that K25 could not be coated on the new machine. It is very difficult to coat the entire family. I also surmised that Kodak did market research for Kodachrome when they did the Ektachrome work. And to finish things off, Kodak had an agresive advertising program for Kodachrome until about 1990 when sales fell below realistically sustainable manufacture. Then it was kept on mainly for nostalgia for people like APUG members who loved it. But it finally could not be sustained.

I guess you don't read my posts and those of others who know what is what.

PE

Yes I do read your posts.
Sorry if you misunderstand me at times, but I was not referring to K25.
I was purely referring to the last time Kodachrome was made (K64) which was coated in B38 as you agree.

As far as market research goes, yes perhaps they did recently. But i have not seen any surveys on their facebook page or in any other media asking photographers what they would want to shoot, what price you would be happy to pay for a film if it was reintroduced, etc.

If it was me, I would be wanting to grab data from a wide audience, they could even be posting on here like other film manufacturers do.
Social media is very powerful and they could really tap into that heavily if they wanted to.

Yes marketing may have been strong in the 90's when film was at its peak, but why not change tactics and market Kodachrome as a nice product for nostalgia?
Many had completley forgotten about it, and I at the time knew very little about it. I only shot super8 and never realised how complex it was to process.
I simply thought that because it was motion picture film, it needed a special lab to handle it. I was very young at the time when I last put my super8 camera down.

twelvetone12 · Feb 2, 2017

When there was still the Lausanne lab around Kodachrome was kinda practical. And I mean... kinda. If you did super8 it was the easiest choice. In 135 a more masochistic and expensive choice.
When it remained only in the USA it was just a big hassle and not worth it. Shipment was (is) expensive, slow, and I even had to fill a customs form (!). My last rolls became nice B&W photographs.
Would this work in today's world? I'm quite pessimistic (even if I loved the film).

Nzoomed · Feb 2, 2017

twelvetone12 said:
When there was still the Lausanne lab around Kodachrome was kinda practical. And I mean... kinda. If you did super8 it was the easiest choice. In 135 a more masochistic and expensive choice.
When it remained only in the USA it was just a big hassle and not worth it. Shipment was (is) expensive, slow, and I even had to fill a customs form (!). My last rolls became nice B&W photographs.
Would this work in today's world? I'm quite pessimistic (even if I loved the film).

I think the key for any future Kodachrome processing is to make kits to make it easier to process in a jobo type machine.
Yes it can already be done by some with homebrew chemistry, so dont see why not with the real chemistry.
Even if consistent results were not guranteed by these means, I would not worry, but you couls always have the option to send to a kodak lab for processing, this possibly could be set up in china or somewhere that is logistically in a good location.

Lachlan Young · Feb 2, 2017

Nzoomed said:
I think the key for any future Kodachrome processing is to make kits to make it easier to process in a jobo type machine.
Yes it can already be done by some with homebrew chemistry, so dont see why not with the real chemistry.
Even if consistent results were not guranteed by these means, I would not worry, but you couls always have the option to send to a kodak lab for processing, this possibly could be set up in china or somewhere that is logistically in a good location.

So how do you plan to correctly re-expose the film on a Jobo/ Paterson type reel, bearing in mind that it needs to be done to both sides of the film with different colours at separate stages in the process & without making a massive mess?

I'd rather have Ektachrome, thanks.

Kodak ‘Investigating What it Would Take’ to Bring Back Kodachrome

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