Kodak ‘Investigating What it Would Take’ to Bring Back Kodachrome

[MattKing]

Given the president's latest supposedly regulation-cutting orders... Suppose the EPA ends up eliminating the regulations that currently restrict various Kodachrome-related chemicals. Would that change the game a little?

I doubt there is anything about the K-14 process that would attract any special EPA attention. Environmental concerns weren't the problem - the market was.

 

[Nzoomed]

The original Kodachrome process was updated and simplified many times since the original. In fact, I am sure if you were to research the original you would be totally put off by the differences and complexity of it compared to K-14. The modern Kodachrome is a snap compared to the first one.

PE

This I believe.
TBH, it would have not even been that much to put me off trying the K-14 process if i had access to the chemicals needed.
The only real annoyances are the remjet removal and the light re-exposures.
mixing the chemicals accurately could potentially be a problem, but this I feel would actually be less complex for single runs in the likes of a Jobo machine where the chemicals are used just the once and not having to be constantly replenished like in a large processing machine.

It's interesting reading about ferrania's challenges downsizing the old equipment and they never were neve close to Kodak in output.

I'm genuinely interested in how Kodak are approaching the challenge.

Are you referring to the old ferrania or the new ferrania?
AFAIK, they are wanting to upgrade their small research coater to increase production, not downscale further, thats why they did the kickstarter to save parts of the old coater to extend the drying tunnel etc.

Given the president's latest supposedly regulation-cutting orders... Suppose the EPA ends up eliminating the regulations that currently restrict various Kodachrome-related chemicals. Would that change the game a little?

I discussed here last week regarding this and it was agreed that it was unlikley any EPA banned chemicals were used in the modern Kodachrome.

 

[Nzoomed]

Try the pleasure of unloading the film from the spool, making sure you expose the right side and only that for the exact amount of light without bending, scratching or dropping the film, and then put back the wet film on the spool. In total darkness! I did it (on a jobo, too) - it's fun (and I hope to have the time to try out PE's latest suggestions, results were so-so). But it just can't work in a commercial environment, which needs repeatable and exact results (I remember people complaining that K14 quality at Dwayne's not as good as in the Lausanne lab). I was thinking of making a 3d printed re-exposure machine. Even if Kodak brought back the film and made the chemicals available, how many people would actually do this at home?

I would

 

[Nzoomed]

Damn, I hope not! Any improvement to already-wonderful E100G would be nice, but reverting to the 1946 version is a deal breaker.

Who said anything about the 1946 version???

I too expect they would intend to improve on e100g and not make it worse.

 

[flavio81]

Given the president's latest supposedly regulation-cutting orders... Suppose the EPA ends up eliminating the regulations that currently restrict various Kodachrome-related chemicals. Would that change the game a little?

Commander Keen,

What i understood is that there wasn't such a restriction, and that the K14 process and films were up-to-date regarding such issues. And that the death of Kodachrome had nothing to do with environmental regulations, and a lot to do with consumers NOT using that stuff anymore, preferring digital, negative films; plus professionals largely, largely preferring E6 films.

 

[flavio81]

This I believe.
TBH, it would have not even been that much to put me off trying the K-14 process if i had access to the chemicals needed.
The only real annoyances are the remjet removal and the light re-exposures.

... and someone could devise a home machine to make remjet removal and colored light re-exposures easier.

 

[flavio81]

Are you referring to the old ferrania or the new ferrania?
AFAIK, they are wanting to upgrade their small research coater to increase production, not downscale further, thats why they did the kickstarter to save parts of the old coater to extend the drying tunnel etc.

New Ferrania.

The original production coater (called "Big Boy" by current management) was HUGE, one facility made film for all the world.
At the same time they had the small research coater in the LRC (Photographic Research Lab), which they are using right now.

What they are going to do next is to enlarge the capacity of the LRC, but the scale will still be the "right" scale for the business, and far, far, smaller than the production scale of the original coater.

The Ferrania Project went beyond just upgrading the small research coater; their plans are very ambitious and are, basically, creating a sustainable film factory of the "right" scale for producing color film indefinitely.

 

[Nzoomed]

... and someone could devise a home machine to make remjet removal and colored light re-exposures easier.

Yep, I agree, would be piece of cake to make something with an arduino and 3d printed gears etc.
Could easily take it further and make a small scale K-Lab that processed everything in one sweep if you really wanted to.
Most cruical things to get right is mixing the chemicals to the correct ratio and having the right temperature.

You have a window of about one hour before the dye couplers are oxidized, so it would be preferable to have the remjet all removed and ready to go into the tank before the chemicals are mixed.

 

[Diapositivo]

... and someone could devise a home machine to make remjet removal and colored light re-exposures easier.

I also think that, if really film flies again high in the sky, and slide film sales rise very much, a Kodachrome technology can come back.
The previous fall of Kodachrome was due to the wait and risks in sending the precious film away.

In this age of microprocessors and miniaturization, I don't see as unfeasible - if there was a demand - to create a small automatic laboratory (in the cost of less than 5000 Euros, let's say) that would process Kodachrome automatically. We are not in the '70s any more. "Remjet" removal and coloured light re-exposure cannot be something so difficult to obtain in modern times.

The only big IF is the film and slide film markets. IF the volumes go back to the order of magnitude they used to have (hard, but not impossible) Kodachrome is probably going to come back with some minilab technology able to process it IMHO, thus taking away its greates drawback, the need to mail it. Nihil difficile volenti.

 

[Sal Santamaura]

Who said anything about the 1946 version???...

You did:

They are going to produce a reversal film called Ektachrome. It remains to be seen whether it is the same as any earlier films.

Its intended to be as close to the original as possible.

 

[Nzoomed]

I also think that, if really film flies again high in the sky, and slide film sales rise very much, a Kodachrome technology can come back.
The previous fall of Kodachrome was due to the wait and risks in sending the precious film away.

In this age of microprocessors and miniaturization, I don't see as unfeasible - if there was a demand - to create a small automatic laboratory (in the cost of less than 5000 Euros, let's say) that would process Kodachrome automatically. We are not in the '70s any more. "Remjet" removal and coloured light re-exposure cannot be something so difficult to obtain in modern times.

The only big IF is the film and slide film markets. IF the volumes go back to the order of magnitude they used to have (hard, but not impossible) Kodachrome is probably going to come back with some minilab technology able to process it IMHO, thus taking away its greates drawback, the need to mail it. Nihil difficile volenti.

I agree, and If Kodak see the dedication by such photographers to find means to process the film, it may be enough incentive for Kodak to produce the film again.
If a few people built their labs from an open source 3d printed design etc, it would make available processing more widespread and less of a "mystery" as it has been previously.

It appears that Dwaynes was still getting a reasonable volume of Kodachrome prior to kodak dropping K64, and then once the news got out about Kodak dropping Kodachrome, it caused Dwaynes to receive a frenzy of films to get developed, so it appears that people did want to shoot it before it was too late and many simply got lazy with the digital age. I think that today it would be possible to resurrect Kodachrome and it would even be more of a special product today than what it once was.

 

[kb3lms]

I dont see why kodachrome could not be processed in a jobo style machine, as is already demonstrated with homebrew couplers, it would just need a darkroom accessory for the light exposures.

Have you ever tried anything like doing this at all? For example, have you tried reversal processing a b/w film to one chromogenic color?

 

[kb3lms]

Even if Kodak brought back the film and made the chemicals available, how many people would actually do this at home?

A few, one time, to say they did it. After that, nobody.

 

[kb3lms]

Now, whew, if K14 is a snap being what it is, the original process must be quite a feat.

The differential bleaching process in the original looks horrid.

 

[Nzoomed]

Have you ever tried anything like doing this at all? For example, have you tried reversal processing a b/w film to one chromogenic color?

no but there are kits available for this

 

[Theo Sulphate]

How many K-labs were there? Perhaps a few have escaped the scrapyard.

If someone were to use a rescued K-lab to process existing Kodachrome stock, that would be cool.

Getting Kodak to manufacture Kodachrome again for a new generation of photographers is a different story.

 

[keenmaster486]

Somebody was going to try that once but nothing ever came of it, at least that we know of.

Yeah, if Kodachrome is to come back, there has to be a new generation of photographers who want to shoot it.

I would hope that there are a lot of people like me, only just becoming a force in the film market, who would propel such a film to profitability. But I fear that I am in the tiny minority

 

[Nzoomed]

How many K-labs were there? Perhaps a few have escaped the scrapyard.

If someone were to use a rescued K-lab to process existing Kodachrome stock, that would be cool.

Getting Kodak to manufacture Kodachrome again for a new generation of photographers is a different story.

Kelvin Kittle rescued the K-Lab from the rocky mountain film lab.

I dont know how to get hold of him as the kodachrome project forums have been taken down.

He intended on making it operational again but needed the chemistry of course.

Kodak need to conduct market research on what people would pay etc.

If it cost $100 per roll, I myself would still shoot a roll or two a year, and if those costs could justify production, perhaps it may be indeed worthwhile to keep it going as a niche product.

 

[Europan]

From PE you can learn what slight exaggeration is.

 

[Nzoomed]

From PE you can learn what slight exaggeration is.

+1

 

[Sirius Glass]

+1

 

[Photo Engineer]

Ummm, I'm not sure I know how to take this one!

PE

 

[RattyMouse]

Kodak need to conduct market research on what people would pay etc.

Kodak has done that with the result of this research being that Kodachrome production was shut down and the entire line made obsolete. There isn't any money to be made there and that hasnt changed today.

 

[kruiwagen]

The decision to shut down Kodachrome was made in june 2009. So this 'research' must have been done prior to that. A lot has changed in 8 years. Could you provide me with a source of this research?

 

[LAG]

...I would hope that there are a lot of people like me, only just becoming a force in the film market, who would propel such a film to profitability. But I fear that I am in the tiny minority

Do the numbers, the film market is wider than that, the film consumers are many more than you think ... with or without Kodachrome