Kodak ‘Investigating What it Would Take’ to Bring Back Kodachrome

Sirius Glass · Jan 29, 2017

Get over it.
Kodak has never brought back a dropped film.
Ilford has never brought back a dropped film.
Fuji has never brought back a dropped film.

Nzoomed · Jan 29, 2017

Sirius Glass said:
Get over it.
Kodak has never brought back a dropped film.
Ilford has never brought back a dropped film.
Fuji has never brought back a dropped film.

Wrong, Fuji bought back Velvia 50, Ilford bought back SFX 200 and Kodak is bringing back Ektachrome.....

RPC · Jan 30, 2017

They are going to produce a reversal film called Ektachrome. It remains to be seen whether it is the same as any earlier films.

Nzoomed · Jan 30, 2017

RPC said:
They are going to produce a reversal film called Ektachrome. It remains to be seen whether it is the same as any earlier films.

Its intended to be as close to the original as possible.

kruiwagen · Jan 30, 2017

RPC said:
Those reasons didn't stop it from going away to begin with, what makes you think they will bring it back now?

Times, markets, targets and production might have changed

RPC · Jan 30, 2017

kruiwagen said:
Times, markets, targets and production might have changed

It can't come back based on "might" or wishful thinking of a small number of people. Real reasons are needed, and they just aren't there and likely never will be. Hence Kodak's smart decision not to bring it back.

kruiwagen · Jan 30, 2017

RPC said:
It can't come back based on "might" or wishful thinking of a small number of people. Real reasons are needed, and they just aren't there and likely never will be. Hence Kodak's smart decision not to bring it back.

I don't state anything because I don't have any numbers or research. Neither do I state facts why they shouldn't bring it back.

wahiba · Jan 30, 2017

the Kodachrome process was developed in the 1920s and it is to the credit of the Kodak engineers that they made the process work. That it produced such a good image was no doubt an unintended consequence, although having the colour dies in the processing rather than the film help.

Nearly a hundred years has passed. Epson are selling an inkjet printer where the ink comes in bottles. Now no way am I suggesting that Kodak could produce a machine the size of an inkjet printer for the processing of kodachrome; but they might.

Inkjet inks and colour dies are possibly similar, if not the same thing!
The mechanical aspect of the machine would be the most expensive, but if it could do cine film as well as camera film on a continuous process then would there be a market.

My technical conclusion is that it is probably possible and in a relatively small machine that a small laboratory could work with. Whether or not it is a commercially viable proposition, I do not know.

Boy; do we live in interesting times!!!

twelvetone12 · Jan 30, 2017

They did that, it was called K-Lab, it was still big and complex. K14 process is complex there is no way around that. Hacking it together in the kitchen is possible but having a commercial setup with constant quality is a completely different thing.

Nzoomed · Jan 30, 2017

I dont see why kodachrome could not be processed in a jobo style machine, as is already demonstrated with homebrew couplers, it would just need a darkroom accessory for the light exposures.

twelvetone12 · Jan 30, 2017

Try the pleasure of unloading the film from the spool, making sure you expose the right side and only that for the exact amount of light without bending, scratching or dropping the film, and then put back the wet film on the spool. In total darkness! I did it (on a jobo, too) - it's fun (and I hope to have the time to try out PE's latest suggestions, results were so-so). But it just can't work in a commercial environment, which needs repeatable and exact results (I remember people complaining that K14 quality at Dwayne's not as good as in the Lausanne lab). I was thinking of making a 3d printed re-exposure machine. Even if Kodak brought back the film and made the chemicals available, how many people would actually do this at home?

railwayman3 · Jan 30, 2017

I wonder if it's the same "Kodak-knockers" who slated Kodak for discontinuing some films a year or two ago , and who now blame Kodak for suggesting that some films might be brought back ? If they don't like Kodak films, or the thought of Kodachrome processing, why waste time in these threads, when they could be out shooting Ilford, Fuji, Lomo, Rollei, Adox or whatever....or are they going to find reasons to knock those products as well ? Ah well, I guess that some people are happier when they're fault-finding and grumbling.

LAG · Jan 30, 2017

railwayman3 said:
I wonder if it's the same "Kodak-knockers" who slated Kodak for discontinuing some films a year or two ago , and who now blame Kodak for suggesting that some films might be brought back ? If they don't like Kodak films, or the thought of Kodachrome processing, why waste time in these threads, when they could be out shooting Ilford, Fuji, Lomo, Rollei, Adox or whatever....or are they going to find reasons to knock those products as well ? Ah well, I guess that some people are happier when they're fault-finding and grumbling.

Nicely stated! ... however everybody has the right to form their own opinion, for and against!, otherwise it would be very a boring place

Marcelo Paniagua · Jan 30, 2017

flavio81 said:
You ought to appreciate the fun of participating in such threads. I do. It's fun and entertaining.

On with this thread! Show must go on!

Well there's already about 2 more pages of post so why not?

Keep posting

Marcelo

Sal Santamaura · Jan 30, 2017

RPC said:
They are going to produce a reversal film called Ektachrome. It remains to be seen whether it is the same as any earlier films.

Nzoomed said:
Its intended to be as close to the original as possible.

Damn, I hope not! Any improvement to already-wonderful E100G would be nice, but reverting to the 1946 version is a deal breaker.

RPC · Jan 30, 2017

I too, hope not. Many, if not most, preferred Fuji to the Ektachrome and Kodachrome films, so they will have to produce something now that can be competitive. Ferrania will also be in the picture.

trondsi · Jan 30, 2017

I have used both Kodachrome and Ektachrome, and I can see why someone would say Ektachrome is superior (it had finer grain as far as I remember) BUT: photography is art. Sometimes an artist prefers to "paint" with a different palette. Kodachrome had a distinct color palette that does not really resemble any of the other slide films. To me, it often looked "earthy" in the oil painting sense (earth tones such as yellow ochre and iron oxide reds. The reds often looked "rusty" to me). It would turn saturated only when light was good and the subject had good saturation (again, in my experience). Finally, I often noticed that while most E6 films "fade to blue" when the light is not optimal, Kodachrome would "fade to gray", which is actually sometimes preferable. Sorry for using my own lingo here, but does this seem accurate to old Kodachrome users? On top of that, it really did have an interesting "sharp" look (this includes contrast etc).

So, if you ask me, if someone likes those characteristics then wishing it would make a comeback is totally legit.

Sal Santamaura · Jan 30, 2017

RPC said:
I too, hope not...

You appear to have missed the point of my post, which was sarcasm aimed at the "intended to be as close to the original as possible" post I quoted.

RPC said:
...Many, if not most, preferred Fuji to the Ektachrome and Kodachrome films, so they will have to produce something now that can be competitive...

Astia was the only Fujifilm transparency film I found attractive (after original Fujichrome 50 -- not Velveeta -- was discontinued decades ago). When Astia disappeared, I tried E100G and found it to be an even more pleasing product. If Kodak's new Ektachrome can just match E100G it will be the finest transparency film available. Improved performance would be a bonus but is not a requirement.

RPC said:
...Ferrania will also be in the picture.

In my opinion, Ferrania has quite a hurdle to overcome. Its transparency product, even the last incarnation, wasn't in the same league as Kodak's and Fuji's were. Much improvement will be necessary for its new film to be competitive.

Since this thread is ostensibly about Kodachrome, note that I'd give up every other film, color and black and white, negative or transparency, for Estar-based Kodachrome 25 Professional in 120 and sheets. But it ain't gonna happen. Ever.

klownshed · Jan 30, 2017

Regardless of the technical issues, Kodak won't even consider bringing back Kodachrome unless Ektachrome is a huge hit.

So we all have the potential to have a direct effect on kodak's product line if we buy Ektachrome in sufficient volume.

But I wonder how Kodak have worked out how to bring back the 'chromes in realistic quantities? I wonder how much of their old machinery is practical for the lower output than their old factories were designed for?

It's interesting reading about ferrania's challenges downsizing the old equipment and they never were neve close to Kodak in output.

I'm genuinely interested in how Kodak are approaching the challenge.

flavio81 · Jan 30, 2017

Sal Santamaura said:
In my opinion, Ferrania has quite a hurdle to overcome. Its transparency product, even the last incarnation, wasn't in the same league as Kodak's and Fuji's were. Much improvement will be necessary for its new film to be competitive.

Only one company produces reversal color film - Fujifilm, and only three products: Provia 100F, Velvia 100 and Velvia 50.
These films are very expensive.

And maybe later in this year we will have a 100-speed Ektachrome from Kodak. Kodak E6 films were not cheap. Kodak C41 pro films are pricier than what I was used to paying for in the past.

In this context it is very easy for Ferrania to remain competitive if their product is significantly cheaper.

Moreover they have re-built themselves from the ground up to be profitable with small scale film production. In this sense you could say that they are already more competitive than Kodak or Fuji, since E6 films are going to be small scale production anyways.

railwayman3 · Jan 30, 2017

flavio81 said:
Only one company produces reversal color film - Fujifilm, and only three products: Provia 100F, Velvia 100 and Velvia 50.
These films are very expensive.

And maybe later in this year we will have a 100-speed Ektachrome from Kodak. Kodak E6 films were not cheap. Kodak C41 pro films are pricier than what I was used to paying for in the past.
.

I think that we may get a surprise on the pricing of the new Ektachrome.....and I don't think it will be a nice one. Just a feeling, and IMHO.
No reflection on Kodak, just that there are bound to be high cost in such a specialist product ?

RPC · Jan 30, 2017

Sal Santamaura said:
You appear to have missed the point of my post, which was sarcasm aimed at the "intended to be as close to the original as possible" post I quoted.

I knew there was some joking in there, I just took that opportunity to say I thought that bringing back the old Ektachromes would not be the most competitive thing for Kodak to do. As for Ferrania, they would definitely cut into Fuji and Kodak's sales to some degree, and every little bit hurts in this marketplace.

Photo Engineer · Jan 30, 2017

The original Kodachrome process was updated and simplified many times since the original. In fact, I am sure if you were to research the original you would be totally put off by the differences and complexity of it compared to K-14. The modern Kodachrome is a snap compared to the first one.

PE

keenmaster486 · Jan 30, 2017

Given the president's latest supposedly regulation-cutting orders... Suppose the EPA ends up eliminating the regulations that currently restrict various Kodachrome-related chemicals. Would that change the game a little?

Prest_400 · Jan 30, 2017

flavio81 said:
Only one company produces reversal color film - Fujifilm, and only three products: Provia 100F, Velvia 100 and Velvia 50.
These films are very expensive.

And maybe later in this year we will have a 100-speed Ektachrome from Kodak. Kodak E6 films were not cheap. Kodak C41 pro films are pricier than what I was used to paying for in the past.

In this context it is very easy for Ferrania to remain competitive if their product is significantly cheaper.

Moreover they have re-built themselves from the ground up to be profitable with small scale film production. In this sense you could say that they are already more competitive than Kodak or Fuji, since E6 films are going to be small scale production anyways.

In part yes, the smaller scale of manufacturing allows lots of flexibility (ISO 400, 800, 640T anyone?) to make small specialized runs. However they may have more overhead because of lesser economies of scale. Let's see!
There is a Chance Ferrania's product will be quite good, there was some research advancements that because of market positioning (cheap) weren't incorporated.

Photo Engineer said:
The modern Kodachrome is a snap compared to the first one.

PE

"But then we can make a lab in a Barn, won't we? And then Kodak will make Kodachrome again, and Kodachrome will take over Ektachrome. And then it will take over everything!"

Now, whew, if K14 is a snap being what it is, the original process must be quite a feat.

Kodak ‘Investigating What it Would Take’ to Bring Back Kodachrome

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