Kodak ‘Investigating What it Would Take’ to Bring Back Kodachrome

BAC1967 · Jan 14, 2017

Theo Sulphate said:
Bolex models with a reflex finder used a prism which diverted about 20% of the light from the optical path into the viewfinder. Beaulieu, in my opinion, had a better system where the mirror on the rotating shutter provided an image to the reflex finder between frames as the film advanced. Yes, there was some flicker.

It would've been nice if the new Kodak camera had either - I'd think a prism solution would be much less expensive and far more reliable than an electronic viewfinder.

The prism system in the Bolex H series reflex cameras makes for a very dim image in the viewfinder. It's positioned behind the iris so you have to open it wide to focus, then stop down to shoot. Plus, like you said, you only get 20% of the light. I don't think that would be a problem with the digital finder on the new Kodak camera since the brightness could be adjusted. On the Bolex Super 8 cameras like the 155 and 160 the reflex image is split before the iris so you always have a bright image, but you don't get the depth of field. Many of the reflex lenses were made the same way. I've used a Beaulieu with the mirror and I think it works fine, the flicker doesn't bother me though.

Gerald C Koch · Jan 14, 2017

flavio81 said:
Let's get REAL: Pro photographers used Kodachrome 25 and 64 until something called "FUJICHROME VELVIA 50" appeared, with ultra saturated colors, quicker processing, and fairly good image stability; they migrated en masse to it (and then to Provia, Astia, and the new Ektachromes), and Kodachrome died because of lower demand.
ads.

However those that were interested in image stability continued to use Kodachrome. It would be interesting to see how Velvia and other chromes faired over the decades as compared to Kodachrome.

skorpiius · Jan 15, 2017

Europan said:
Kodak’s brouhaha around a new camera and Ektachrome cannot conceal what they’re about.They want us to buy cartridge after cartridge, by the bars still better. They want consumers to consume like mad

Hasn't that been Kodak's business plan since 1888?

Europan · Jan 15, 2017

Theo Sulphate said:
Beaulieu, in my opinion, had a better system where the mirror on the rotating shutter provided an image to the reflex finder between frames as the film advanced.

The Beaulieu reflex cameras have oscillating shutters, not rotating ones. The system is also called Guillotine after the device of Dr. Guillotin. Like the (little) play in the roller bearings with a spinning mirror shutter the Beaulieu system also suffers from an always present little amount of play between the guide grooves and the mirror slide. The non-availability of precision ball bearings was said to have been an obstacle to the introduction of the ARRIFLEX. Only a prism or a pellicle is immobile once installed. It is, however, possible to reduce roller bearing play to zero, also that of an oscillating shutter but I have lost all interest in tinkering with Beaulieu cameras.

The Ciné-Kodak Special offered a reflex viewing system usable at standstill. When one pressed the release button, the swung-in mirror would jump back out of the optical path.

Lachlan Young · Jan 15, 2017

Europan said:
Whoop, you know what type of mirror shutter is in there? If not a spinning one, it must be an oscillating shutter. Or is there a pellicle?

I don't, but I think it's reasonable to suggest a beam-splitter or similar - the rest of the camera is likely to owe a lot mechanically to the Logmar camera I suspect. It's also supposed to be silent sync/ sound recording, which does impose some limitations on shutter/ movement design.

Europan · Jan 15, 2017

Thanks for the honesty. Should never expect anything like that from Eastman-Kodak. If they’d at least state exposure time per frame, would be something solid for a change.

A Beaulieu R 16 has 144 degrees equivalent shutter opening angle, a Beaulieu R 8 around 105 degrees. Same goes for Ercsam Camex Reflex 8.

Lachlan Young · Jan 15, 2017

Europan said:
Thanks for the honesty. Should never expect anything like that from Eastman-Kodak. If they’d at least state exposure time per frame, would be something solid for a change.

A Beaulieu R 16 has 144 degrees equivalent shutter opening angle, a Beaulieu R 8 around 105 degrees. Same goes for Ercsam Camex Reflex 8.

180, 172.8, 144 seem reasonable, especially given that those enable compatibility with HMI etc & sound sync. I'd imagine that exposure times will also follow industry norms for S16 & 35mm

Europan · Jan 15, 2017

Marcel Beaulieu had one thing in mind, to make money. He delivered amateur equipment through and through. Paillard & Cie made amateur cameras that have become half professional only in 1963 when the H models were given a big base and the claw drive axle accessible for synch motors. There’s a clear line between amateur and professional gear which is defined by repeatability with service. Almost all amateur cameras I have worked on don’t stand up to that. Steel screws in an aluminum housing is the exact opposite of an engineering principle. A long lasting apparatus is fitted with relatively weaker screws as disposable parts. Only as an example

Theo Sulphate · Jan 15, 2017

Europan said:
The Beaulieu reflex cameras have oscillating shutters, not rotating ones. ...

Thank you for the correction and also for your interesting observations above regarding Beaulieu.

Europan · Jan 15, 2017

Sodium Theo Sulphate or without the sodium, I have only now read that you’re located frá Íslandi til Noregs. Do you swim to and fro or do you have a little rubber boat for moving?

Here is a pic of a Beaulieu MR8. You can see the movement, how the claw and the shutter slides are actuated.

Theo Sulphate · Jan 15, 2017

Europan said:
...Do you swim to and fro or do you have a little rubber boat for moving?

Icelandair is more efficient.

Here is a pic of a Beaulieu MR8. You can see the movement, how the claw and the shutter slides are actuated.
...

Nice. Thank you.

Diapositivo · Jan 15, 2017

I think it is reasonable to say that Kodachrome might be revived if the two following conditions are met:

a) a very great (not to say huge) increase in slide film sales, that creates the necessary large scale for the economic viability of the product;
b) some reason that makes Kodachrome more interesting than E-6 technology. That's probably storage stability, although, if condition a) is met, one could not rule out emotional/irrational/aesthetic reasons: sometimes difference is a quality in itself, "personality" so to speak.

Point a) is unknown, it's in the future, maybe a dream, maybe not. It's a hope, but hoping is sweet in itself!
Point b) is not very clear to me.

At the moment, is it fair to say that existing E-6 products fare worse than the last incarnation of Kodachrome as far as storage stability is concerned?

Supposing the answer is yes, would the economic investment in reviving Kodachrome be inferior to just the investment needed to create E-6 material with superior archival qualities? Or is Kodachrome "intrinsically" superior as far as archival qualities are concerned to E-6 products in such a way that the latter will never match the former?

Nzoomed · Jan 15, 2017

Diapositivo said:
I think it is reasonable to say that Kodachrome might be revived if the two following conditions are met:

a) a very great (not to say huge) increase in slide film sales, that creates the necessary large scale for the economic viability of the product;
b) some reason that makes Kodachrome more interesting than E-6 technology. That's probably storage stability, although, if condition a) is met, one could not rule out emotional/irrational/aesthetic reasons: sometimes difference is a quality in itself, "personality" so to speak.

Point a) is unknown, it's in the future, maybe a dream, maybe not. It's a hope, but hoping is sweet in itself!
Point b) is not very clear to me.

At the moment, is it fair to say that existing E-6 products fare worse than the last incarnation of Kodachrome as far as storage stability is concerned?

Supposing the answer is yes, would the economic investment in reviving Kodachrome be inferior to just the investment needed to create E-6 material with superior archival qualities? Or is Kodachrome "intrinsically" superior as far as archival qualities are concerned to E-6 products in such a way that the latter will never match the former?

I think that Super8 and 16mm film alone may be attractive enough for Kodachrome, especially if Kodak are successful enough with their marketing of the new camera etc

MattKing · Jan 15, 2017

The biggest reason for reviving Kodachrome would be some market reality that mandates centralized, high volume processing. Kodachrome was at its best when that was the nature of the market.

Nzoomed · Jan 15, 2017

MattKing said:
The biggest reason for reviving Kodachrome would be some market reality that mandates centralized, high volume processing. Kodachrome was at its best when that was the nature of the market.

I agree it was something Kodak did very well.

Even here in New Zealand, their service was great, I just posted the film to them, and they sent it on to the lab and we got it back.

I did not mind the wait, and I couldnt care less if i had to wait a month to get my film back.

Its not like I dont wait at the moment for my E6 film processing!

Wayne · Jan 16, 2017

Kodachrome won't come back before print magazines on analog photography come back. Yeah, its that far-fetched.

kruiwagen · Jan 16, 2017

Nzoomed said:
I agree it was something Kodak did very well.

Even here in New Zealand, their service was great, I just posted the film to them, and they sent it on to the lab and we got it back.

I did not mind the wait, and I couldnt care less if i had to wait a month to get my film back.

Its not like I dont wait at the moment for my E6 film processing!

I think Kodachrome would be a niche product within a niche market. I wouldn't have a problem waiting for a month too.

bvy · Jan 16, 2017

So which is it? "Investigating what it would take" or "decided Ektachrome was the better choice"? Which statement was made first? Or is it just a case of the left hand not talking to the right?

kruiwagen · Jan 16, 2017

bvy said:
So which is it? "Investigating what it would take" or "decided Ektachrome was the better choice"? Which statement was made first? Or is it just a case of the left hand not talking to the right?

Hard to know...two different statements made by two different companies

cmacd123 · Jan 16, 2017

Craig said:
Yes, it was the red ends on the film cassette that indicated processing included.

Actually, it was the colour of the edge printing As far as I have heard... Kodachrome sold without processing was limited to the USA, after Kodak was ordered not to bundle processing. so non included had Kodachrome as black lettering on a colour background and included was coloured lettering (or perhaps that was reversed)

KenS · Jan 16, 2017

The unfortunate 'thing' about returning to chromes might be the biggest problem that 'we' faced when I was a 'working' photographer. Too often, we had to 'endure' a 6+ week turn-around from Kodak... for BOTH our Kodachrome and Ektachrome processing, a ridiculous delay we could not 'afford'... so we stopped using Kodachrome and started our own in-house processing of the Ektachrome... and the scientific staff could have their slides within 24 hours.

Ken

RattyMouse · Jan 16, 2017

People are (except for PE) really, really underestimating the enormous undertaking it would be to re-establish a Kodachrome processing pipeline.

Prof_Pixel · Jan 16, 2017

RattyMouse said:
People are (except for PE) really, really underestimating the enormous undertaking it would be to re-establish a Kodachrome processing pipeline.

“Weiler’s Law”
Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn’t have to do it himself.

flavio81 · Jan 16, 2017

RattyMouse said:
People are (except for PE) really, really underestimating the enormous undertaking it would be to re-establish a Kodachrome processing pipeline.

Reality is boring! We're having fun, big time, come and join the party!!

flavio81 · Jan 16, 2017

Prof_Pixel said:
“Weiler’s Law”
Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn’t have to do it himself.

Professor:

Kodak ‘Investigating What it Would Take’ to Bring Back Kodachrome

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