Kodachrome

[piratelogy]

Sigh and I was hoping to read about your process

I'll write something up about it here soon

 

[piratelogy]

Ok, for those who have asked, here's my current process:

Couplers:
Cyan - 1-NAPHTHOL
Yellow - P-CHLOROACETOACETANILIDE
Magenta - P-NITROPHENYLACETRONITRILE

Developer: CD-4 from a C-41 kit. (Note, that I'm actually using a developer based on DIETHYL-P-PHENYLENEDIAMINE HYDROCHLORIDE found in Patent 4052212 for cost but CD-4 seems to work essentially identically)
Mix about .5mg of coupler into 2-3cc of Acetone. Make sure it dissolves completely or you get spots.
Pour dissolved coupler into 250ml CD-4. Repeat until you have three developers, one for each coupler.

Process:
Develop film in HC-110dilB for 14min at 105F.
Wash.
In total dark sponge off remjet.
expose through base with narrowband *RED* LED flashlight, 2-3 passes.
return film to tank
Develop with cyan developer for 3 minutes.
wash
Return to darkroom, expose film with narrowband *BLUE* LED flashlight, 2-3 passes.
Return film to tank.
Develop for 8 minutes with yellow developer.
wash.
Remove film from the tank and expose to room light, return film to tank.
Develop for 6 minutes with magenta developer.
Wash.
Blix with c41 kit's blix for 2x recommended time.
wash.

Enjoy.

Please note that this process is still a work in progress and may change. If you attempt it PLEASE let me know! I'd love to hear from others trying it out.

 

[Photo Engineer]

The actual color developer formulation as described leaves a lot out and is not very strong for what is desired. Also, as I noted before, image stability of this is going to be quite poor.

PE

 

[piratelogy]

The actual color developer formulation as described leaves a lot out and is not very strong for what is desired. Also, as I noted before, image stability of this is going to be quite poor.

PE

I totally get that, but its what I've got to work with until I can find a source for more correct color couplers. Sigma Aldrich isn't looking good right now, so I'm looking to find other suppliers. I don't have the skills to synthesize them myself, so I'm at the mercy of labs who can.

 

[flavio81]

Ok, for those who have asked, here's my current process:

Couplers:
Cyan - 1-NAPHTHOL
Yellow - P-CHLOROACETOACETANILIDE
Magenta - P-NITROPHENYLACETRONITRILE

Developer: CD-4 from a C-41 kit. (Note, that I'm actually using a developer based on DIETHYL-P-PHENYLENEDIAMINE HYDROCHLORIDE found in Patent 4052212 for cost but CD-4 seems to work essentially identically)
Mix about .5mg of coupler into 2-3cc of Acetone. Make sure it dissolves completely or you get spots.
Pour dissolved coupler into 250ml CD-4. Repeat until you have three developers, one for each coupler.

Process:
Develop film in HC-110dilB for 14min at 105F.
Wash.
In total dark sponge off remjet.
expose through base with narrowband *RED* LED flashlight, 2-3 passes.
return film to tank
Develop with cyan developer for 3 minutes.
wash
Return to darkroom, expose film with narrowband *BLUE* LED flashlight, 2-3 passes.
Return film to tank.
Develop for 8 minutes with yellow developer.
wash.
Remove film from the tank and expose to room light, return film to tank.
Develop for 6 minutes with magenta developer.
Wash.
Blix with c41 kit's blix for 2x recommended time.
wash.

AKA
The Pirate-14 Process!
"That's one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind." -- Neil Armstrong

Enjoy.

What an understatement!

 

[Photo Engineer]

I totally get that, but its what I've got to work with until I can find a source for more correct color couplers. Sigma Aldrich isn't looking good right now, so I'm looking to find other suppliers. I don't have the skills to synthesize them myself, so I'm at the mercy of labs who can.

Well, starting with the C41 developer (not clear in your post), I would add the coupler and some propylene glycol, ethylene diamine, Sodium Thiocyanate and then I would raise the pH to about 11 or 12. That is for starters. The color will be more intense.

However, the HC110 is probably too weak as well without Thiocyanate. See some Kodak reversal developer formulas.

PE

 

[flavio81]

However, the HC110 is probably too weak as well without Thiocyanate. See some Kodak reversal developer formulas.

How about using Dektol (or the Ilford paper developer) instead?

Just thinking, because these two are stronger, and readily available.

 

[piratelogy]

Well, starting with the C41 developer (not clear in your post), I would add the coupler and some propylene glycol, ethylene diamine, Sodium Thiocyanate and then I would raise the pH to about 11 or 12. That is for starters. The color will be more intense.

However, the HC110 is probably too weak as well without Thiocyanate. See some Kodak reversal developer formulas.

PE

Awesome, I have the glycol, and Sodium Thiocyanate. I can get ethylene diamine easily enough. Currently its running around PH 9-10, so I can absolutely pull it up from there.
I'll try that and report back!

 

[piratelogy]

How about using Dektol (or the Ilford paper developer) instead?

Just thinking, because these two are stronger, and readily available.

I've tried Ilford paper dev 1:5 as Ilford suggests in some of their documentation. Didn't make much difference from the long and hot HC-110 bath. I think I've got some Dektol, it'd be easy enough to try that as well.

 

[Photo Engineer]

There are reversal B&W developers on Kodak's web site and you might try the E6 FD. I would not use Dektol. Too Grainy. You might try D76 with Thiocyanate.

PE

 

[piratelogy]

There are reversal B&W developers on Kodak's web site and you might try the E6 FD. I would not use Dektol. Too Grainy. You might try D76 with Thiocyanate.

PE

I THINK I've got some D76 still, I've grabbed a couple Kodak formulas for D67 and D168 as well as they seem to be what's most often recommended as a reversal dev. I'll mix up some first developers and see what fares best with some test rolls!

 

[Craig]

What about one of the TMax reversal kits?

 

[Nzoomed]

I'll write something up about it here soon

Ive been following your work and am greatly impressed!
I will shoot one of my frozen rolls now that I have a chance of developing it!

BTW...

I have set up a kodachrome wiki on kodachromia.wikia.com
Anyone is free to edit the wiki and document chemistry etc.

 

[piratelogy]

Well, looks like I'm actually out of Sodium Thiocyanate, so it'll be a couple days until I can mix up a new first dev while I wait for some to come in.

 

[RichardJack]

Do we need to take you outside the camp and stone you for blasphemy or will you recant?

LOL...sounds good to me...you might find a roll of Kodachrome hiding under a rock.

 

[dmr]

Ive been following your work and am greatly impressed!

This is all well above my skill level, plus I don't have any Kodachrome left, but I find it fascinating! I'm lurking and cheering you on!

 

[keenmaster486]

This is all well above my skill level, plus I don't have any Kodachrome left, but I find it fascinating! I'm lurking and cheering you on!

You can still get old rolls on eBay!! Just overexposed them a little and you'll be fine.

 

[Nzoomed]

Post #166 has the most accurate information on the couplers.

I see Sigma Aldrich have the cyan coupler listed, but says its discontinued:
http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/product/aldrich/cds013738

But its available from at least 2 or more suppliers on alibaba:
http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/CAS-No-92-76-2-Chemical_60574173461.html

AFAIK, the yellow coupler is the hardest one to find something that is suitable.
On alibaba, there are several chemicals listed that are similar, and may be the intermediate chemicals:
http://www.alibaba.com/trade/search...d=&SearchText=+3-octadecylcarbamyl+phenylthio
Its probably worth asking them if they can produce it, as they will have an idea if its possible or not.

This should work as a suitable Magenta coupler:

http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/product/aldrich/151572

What we dont know is that the kodak formulas could very well indeed be a mixture of all the chemicals mentioned in the patents for the magenta and yellow couplers.

 

[piratelogy]

Post #166 has the most accurate information on the couplers.

I see Sigma Aldrich have the cyan coupler listed, but says its discontinued:
http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/product/aldrich/cds013738

But its available from at least 2 or more suppliers on alibaba:
http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/CAS-No-92-76-2-Chemical_60574173461.html

AFAIK, the yellow coupler is the hardest one to find something that is suitable.
On alibaba, there are several chemicals listed that are similar, and may be the intermediate chemicals:
http://www.alibaba.com/trade/search...d=&SearchText=+3-octadecylcarbamyl+phenylthio
Its probably worth asking them if they can produce it, as they will have an idea if its possible or not.

This should work as a suitable Magenta coupler:

http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/catalog/product/aldrich/151572

What we dont know is that the kodak formulas could very well indeed be a mixture of all the chemicals mentioned in the patents for the magenta and yellow couplers.

I'd never thought to check on Alibaba! I'll see about that yellow coupler. The Magenta one you have listed is very close to the P-NITROPHENYLACETRONITRILE I'm currently using, and still pretty far off from the ones in the patent.

 

[Nzoomed]

I'd never thought to check on Alibaba! I'll see about that yellow coupler. The Magenta one you have listed is very close to the P-NITROPHENYLACETRONITRILE I'm currently using, and still pretty far off from the ones in the patent.

Yes I expect they are very similar going by the name, but the molecules have been tweaked a bit more by Kodak by the looks, a few extra covalent bonds, adding more elements to the molecules, I guess you can treat them as an intermediate chemical, but they do appear to be working, its more that Kodak has optimized them.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Only pyrazolones give good dyes with good stability, at least for your purposes.

But it seems to me that quite a few are willing to give advice but not participate.

PE

 

[keenmaster486]

But it seems to me that quite a few are willing to give advice but not participate.

Come now, sir. That was unnecessary.
How do you define "participate" anyway? I don't see you going out and buying chemicals and doing this yourself.

 

[MattKing]

Come now, sir. That was unnecessary.
How do you define "participate" anyway? I don't see you going out and buying chemicals and doing this yourself.

No he just did part of the development work for the K-14 process, and has his name on the Kodachrome patent.
I'm not kidding - PE/Mr. Mowrey has definitely paid more Kodachrome dues than anyone else here.

 

[Nzoomed]

Only pyrazolones give good dyes with good stability, at least for your purposes.

But it seems to me that quite a few are willing to give advice but not participate.

PE

As far as pyrazolones go, i dont see them listed in the patent, I see you mention them being used on later films, but I cant find anywhere where this is related to K-14 chemistry.
The dyes in the patent all appear to be in the aniline group, I always thought that aniline compounds were extremely stable anyway?
The aniline dyes are very closley related to the azo group of dyes, and this is why i thought Kodachrome was so archival.

And BTW... I have been doing lots of research on google and locating suppliers, have been messaging the companies on alibaba to try and find some that will help produce the chemistry!

 

[keenmaster486]

No he just did part of the development work for the K-14 process, and has his name on the Kodachrome patent.
I'm not kidding - PE/Mr. Mowrey has definitely paid more Kodachrome dues than anyone else here.

No, no, gee, sorry, I did know that! No offense intended to PE; he certainly is an excellent and respected engineer who knows way more than anyone else about this process.

I guess I thought he was talking about participation in this particular amateur project, in the here and now.