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- Mar 30, 2012
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Ive seen several other documents posted here, many pages longer than this and while they contained alot of information, i had to scan through the pages to find anything relevant.
This patent has been quoted and otherwise mentioned here several times. I'm surprised that you missed it.
PE
Hi,
I did some experiment at the weekend.
This is not for doing Kodachrome processing in any commercial way. It was just for playing around.
I used some short strips of Kodachrome 25 and put it into the camera for one shot.
Processing was done in trays, developed by sight using nightvision infrared glasses.
For first developer I used standard E-6 FD.
The color developers were RA-4 developer added naphtol for cyan, pyrazolone for magenta and ethyacetoacetate for yellow.
Naphtol is a horrible stuff. It must be dissolved in alcohol and after a while it formes sticky chunks of blue material swimming on bottom of the developer.
I used 10 trays:
1. prewash in sodium carbonate solution to remove remjet layer
2. wash
3. first developer
4. wash
5. cyan developer
6. wash
7. yellow developer
8. wash (same tray like 6.)
9. magenta developer
10. wash (same tray like 6.)
11. blix
12. wash
processing steps were:
1. prewash some seconds and rubbing away the remjet by hand in the washing tray
2. first developer E-6 around 35 deg. C 5 Minutes (could be longer but I did not want to waste too much time)
3. washing away the first developer
4. exposing the cyan layer through the back layer by a small red LED for 30 seconds
5. cyan developing 3 minutes at 30°C (had be sure the film does not hit the bottom of the tray, because of some chunks of naphtol sticking on the film)
6. washing
7. exposing the yellow layer from the front side of the film by a blue LED for 30 seconds
8. yellow deveoper 3 minutes at 30°C
9. washing
10. switch on room light. The film seems complete black now. I exposed the middle layer from both sides for 2 minutes with the bright room light.
Exposing must be very intense because the middle layer is now between 2 complete black layers and not much light goes through.
11. magenta developer 3 minutes under roomlight
12. wash
13. bleach fix for about 5 minutes
The first picture shows the result.
View attachment 158026
There is too much cyan. The problem was, that the yellow dye is very weak. I don't know why, but the yellow developer seems not to work very well with the film or with the RA-4 developer. I tested some B/W-paper in it and there was a very strong yellow. A bit greenish.
With Kodachrome, the result was a bit brownish and very less. I tested also longer exposing times with the blue LED but no difference.
But you can clearly see the colors.
The second picture is enhanced in photoshop.
View attachment 158027
What did I learn?
It is a hell of work and the results cannot be used to do serious photography.
The other problem is that I don't see any way to do processing with a complete film on a spiral. The color exposing steps could only be done by unspooling the film and spooling it back for developing. It may work for single sheet processing. But if you don't have any infrared view and must handle 10 trays in darkness, you will have a big mess instead of fun
The result looks a bit like a very old historic color photography but it works.
Joachim
Hi,
I did some experiment at the weekend.
This is not for doing Kodachrome processing in any commercial way. It was just for playing around.
I used some short strips of Kodachrome 25 and put it into the camera for one shot.
Processing was done in trays, developed by sight using nightvision infrared glasses.
For first developer I used standard E-6 FD.
The color developers were RA-4 developer added naphtol for cyan, pyrazolone for magenta and ethyacetoacetate for yellow.
Naphtol is a horrible stuff. It must be dissolved in alcohol and after a while it formes sticky chunks of blue material swimming on bottom of the developer.
I used 10 trays:
1. prewash in sodium carbonate solution to remove remjet layer
2. wash
3. first developer
4. wash
5. cyan developer
6. wash
7. yellow developer
8. wash (same tray like 6.)
9. magenta developer
10. wash (same tray like 6.)
11. blix
12. wash
processing steps were:
1. prewash some seconds and rubbing away the remjet by hand in the washing tray
2. first developer E-6 around 35 deg. C 5 Minutes (could be longer but I did not want to waste too much time)
3. washing away the first developer
4. exposing the cyan layer through the back layer by a small red LED for 30 seconds
5. cyan developing 3 minutes at 30°C (had be sure the film does not hit the bottom of the tray, because of some chunks of naphtol sticking on the film)
6. washing
7. exposing the yellow layer from the front side of the film by a blue LED for 30 seconds
8. yellow deveoper 3 minutes at 30°C
9. washing
10. switch on room light. The film seems complete black now. I exposed the middle layer from both sides for 2 minutes with the bright room light.
Exposing must be very intense because the middle layer is now between 2 complete black layers and not much light goes through.
11. magenta developer 3 minutes under roomlight
12. wash
13. bleach fix for about 5 minutes
The first picture shows the result.
View attachment 158026
There is too much cyan. The problem was, that the yellow dye is very weak. I don't know why, but the yellow developer seems not to work very well with the film or with the RA-4 developer. I tested some B/W-paper in it and there was a very strong yellow. A bit greenish.
With Kodachrome, the result was a bit brownish and very less. I tested also longer exposing times with the blue LED but no difference.
But you can clearly see the colors.
The second picture is enhanced in photoshop.
View attachment 158027
What did I learn?
It is a hell of work and the results cannot be used to do serious photography.
The other problem is that I don't see any way to do processing with a complete film on a spiral. The color exposing steps could only be done by unspooling the film and spooling it back for developing. It may work for single sheet processing. But if you don't have any infrared view and must handle 10 trays in darkness, you will have a big mess instead of fun
The result looks a bit like a very old historic color photography but it works.
Joachim
@JoJo: Congratulations! A curiosity: why did you use RA4 color dev and nod E6 or C41 color developers? The red led was a standard 5mm "opaque" one or the super bright ones?
With that re-exposure agent in there, E6 CD is not even close. In Kodachrome, you selectively expose each layer before color developing it, and that re-exposure agent would make this selective exposure moot.Yes I know that, but it is a convenient off the shelf approximation.
Joachim and I have PM'ed on the side. I've tried this with just a plain b/w film (one I made) and got the same brownish result instead of yellow in the ethyl acetoacetate yellow coupler. I did use a Ferricyanide bleach and not a blix. What I did not do, because I forgot, was to use a sulfite clearing bath between the color developer and the bleach. Both of us developed in RA-4 color developer, which is based on CD-3. (Mine is Kodak's RA/RT) Would missing the sulfite clear give the brown instead of yellow?
The pyrazalone coupler makes a good magenta. 1-naphthol yields a blue dye, not cyan, as shown in the Cyan stripe in Joachim's image. It is, however, MUCH cheaper for an experiment than 2,4-dichloro-1-naphthol, which is a correct coupler.
I have a Kodachrome developer recipe that Steve Frizza (IIRC) posted that shows Diethylparaphenylenediamine as the yellow color developer. Maybe that makes the difference? Possibly Steve could comment on what he used for the yellow CD? Diethylparaphenylenediamine is kind of expensive, too.
Not bad results considering the chemistry is not right.I have seen a lot of places that have the current color couplers listed, but they don't actually have them. They are re-sellers of the items from Acros Organic. Acros no longer manufactures them. I was able to purchase two of them a few years ago, but not all three, and CD-6 is also no longer available.
I have included a test I did a few years ago with alternate couplers and color developers. I'm still experimenting, to get it just right, and consistent.
View attachment 158187
I believe Steve posted his formulas on-line. They are very similar (if not the same IIRC) to the formulas given on pgs 520-521 of "The Photographic Process" by Mack and Martin 1939. These formulas work with the older Kodachromes, but will give a haze on the newer ones due to changes in the emulsions.
I used similar couplers in the example I posted last week, but completely different formulations to deal with the more modern emulsion characteristics. I am still continuing my experiments, and hopefully will have more to post in the near future.
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