Is San Francisco really that bad?

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DREW WILEY

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Forget methodology. The Rottweiler can figure that out for himself.
 

VinceInMT

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Is it true you can get rich growing dental floss in Montana?
Here in New Mexico, it's the folks from Texas that are widely hated. That is, after they've spent their money in one of our legal dispensaries. New dispensaries going up all the time right along the border with the Texas Republic. Can SF style crime be far behind?

Maybe dental floss was the cash crop in the past but marijuana is now legal here and it’s the go to right now. However, the crime here, and there is no shortage of it, is related to alcohol and/or meth. Add fentanyl and we’ve got a cocktail of reasons that also feeds our notoriety of having the highest suicide rate in the nation.
 

Vaughn

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Huss - I'm in NorCal. For us, SoCal...
Wishful thinking there Drew -- SF is more SoCal than NorCal. I am afraid SoCal snuck up Hwy 101 on ya. When I am feeling generous, I say SF is Central Coastal CA.

Got to get above Santa Rosa to get to NorCal...and north of Red Bluff coming up Hwy 5.
 

madNbad

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Wishful thinking there Drew -- SF is more SoCal than NorCal. I am afraid SoCal snuck up Hwy 101 on ya. When I am feeling generous, I say SF is Central Coastal CA.

Got to get above Santa Rosa to get to NorCal...and north of Red Bluff coming up Hwy 5.

Isn't that the southern border of the State of Jefferson?
 

DREW WILEY

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The State of Jefferson is more co-terminus with the old "back to the land" Creedence Clearwater ethos, where everyone wants a little log house in the woods, and needs hundred of yard of pvc pipe and a pair of binocular to spot cops before settling into the back to that pure nature plus some cash lifestyle. The opposite corner of the north portion of the State, over toward Alturas, has repeatedly sought to secede from the State itself, because it truly does resemble, both by it demographics and its Great Basin sagebrush scenery, Nevada instead.

But it's really my own hometown area (it anything there could even be termed a real town at that time), which outright rebelled and attempted to secede from both County and State, maybe the whole Country too, as some there are even now espousing. A certain realtor didn't like any kind of law telling him what he could or could not do, so he drummed up a whole lot of excitement, a real hornet's nest. But he was also the Postmaster of that little highway intersection, and it was discovered that he had been embezzling from the Fed Govt for about twenty years. Long interesting rural story even after that; but by this far at least, you understand what ended the momentum of that little rebellion, with him being indicted. But a few weeks later there was an Old West heavily-armed standoff in the middle of the road over a disputed schoolboard election involving some of the same people and a tiny school. Just comes with the territory.

I actually agree with Vaughn about Santa Rosa, or what's left of it after the fires. A sizable chunk of suburbans sprawl indeed. But one can get away from it very quickly, right over toward the still mainly pristine Sonoma coastal area. LA it ain't. And where I am, it's a ten minute walk to lots of open rangeland, with tens of thousands of acres of more of the same within easy driving distance, containing far more hawks and skunks and coyotes and deer, and especially cattle, than people, and even a few mountain lions. But if you want to grow a long gray beard and pretend to be Rip Van Winkle overgrown with sword ferns, and sleeping through banana slugs crawling across you face, the far NW coast of the State might be preferable.
 
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wiltw

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Wishful thinking there Drew -- SF is more SoCal than NorCal. I am afraid SoCal snuck up Hwy 101 on ya. When I am feeling generous, I say SF is Central Coastal CA.

Got to get above Santa Rosa to get to NorCal...and north of Red Bluff coming up Hwy 5.

Am I hearing the potential for a referendun to divide CA into THREE states?!
 

Huss

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Am I hearing the potential for a referendun to divide CA into THREE states?!

Yah, ultra right wing billionaire Peter Thiel wants to break it up into little pieces so it does not have its electoral college clout.
He wants land mass to vote, not people....
 

madNbad

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The State of Jefferson is more co-terminus with the old "back to the land" Creedence Clearwater ethos, where everyone wants a little log house in the woods, and needs hundred of yard of pvc pipe and a pair of binocular to spot cops before settling into the back to that pure nature plus some cash lifestyle. The opposite corner of the north portion of the State, over toward Alturas, has repeatedly sought to secede from the State itself, because it truly does resemble, both by it demographics and its Great Basin sagebrush scenery, Nevada instead.

When we drive to Ashland, there’s a big sign near Grants Pass welcoming you to the “State of Jefferson”. Oregon Public Broadcasting had a piece about the movement and how much traction it had coming out of the Great Depression. It was even scheduled for congressional hearings, then World War II happened and ended those plans.
 

DREW WILEY

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Everything is different, really. It used to be mainly a north versus south Sate controversy. In terms of water policy or outright theft, LA has long been a real villain - "My Little Chickadee" in W.C. Field's time; Chinatown with Jack Nicholson, with "Mulroy" in lieu of the real Mulholland, the books, Cadillac Desert and Land of Little Rain, about the water rape of Owen's Valley, Misrach's pictures of the gradually evaporating Salton Sea, etc.

But now it's more about the more populous wealthier CA coastal belt versus the far more conservative inland - our own Midwest, so to speak. Yet up in the hills, it's become more of a mix, with retirees moving there for the lower real estate prices (but now those awful fires) versus an entrenched hill culture that can be verrrry xenophobic. I sold my own hill property approaching retirement, and only kept my house here in the Bay Area, so long lived in both worlds.

But people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Portland itself has become a city of harsh culture clashes. And now big fires and drought, and awful summer heat spells, have come to roost even there. The other day, my wife was on the phone with the Portland water company, trying to negotiate her mother's water bill, due to current usage restrictions. That was once unimaginable; there seemed to be no end to abundant water and cheap electricity.

And Oregon is itself dramatically geographically divided. Most people with a stereotype of Oregon don't even know that 2/3 of it is sparsely inhabited desert (just as beautiful in its own way as the coast or Cascades, in my opinion ... but just sayin'). And there's a reason the squatter's rights Bundy clan tried to establish their own little secession movement way out there instead of in Portland, where the Starbucks clan already rules most everything.

But I have a soft spot in my heart for Oregon. Until just two years ago I owned the oldest pioneer cemetery in Oregon, but ceded it over to a nephew who has houses both in Portland and near the Bend ski resort. Hope to travel and photograph there more again, as gasoline princes subside.
 
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wiltw

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Yah, ultra right wing billionaire Peter Thiel wants to break it up into little pieces so it does not have its electoral college clout.
He wants land mass to vote, not people....

The recipe to lose most of the ability to influence the direction of the world via the economic and tech power from the world's 5th largest economy.
 

Sirius Glass

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Observations of San Francisco
Compared to visits in November, December and the Spring and Summer, there are much fewer people than in the past. In the north end: Fishermans Warf and Pier 39 including North Point, I can cross the street safely against the traffic light any time day or night. There is hardly any foot traffic. Almost no lines at the tourist areas.
 

madNbad

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Observations of San Francisco
Compared to visits in November, December and the Spring and Summer, there are much fewer people than in the past. In the north end: Fishermans Warf and Pier 39 including North Point, I can cross the street safely against the traffic light any time day or night. There is hardly any foot traffic. Almost no lines at the tourist areas.

Do you think the weather had an impact on tourism?
 

Sirius Glass

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Do you think the weather had an impact on tourism?

I have asked at several restaurants and stores and they said that the businesses have not recovered from COVID. There are many businesses and restaurants including large popular ones that are out of business.
 
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Roger Thoms

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Sirius is still alive so San Fran is not as bad as people who have no intention of visiting it claim.

Been living here 12 years, and I’m still kicking too. Had a very enjoyable day Saturday, spent it at Harvey Milk Photo Center at Duboce Park, printing in the darkroom which is run by SF Recreation and Parks. So it not all bad here in SF.

Roger
 

takilmaboxer

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Old school New Mexicans say that New Mexico begins at La Bajada Hill, 10 miles south of Santa Fe. In my Humboldt days, we'd debate where Northern California really begins. Cloverdale? Willits? Ukiah? Santa Rosa...nahhh! way too close to San Jose! There were times when all three highways serving Humboldt Bay were closed due to weather. That isolation made us feel like the real thing😎 No crime when it's raining an inch a day!
 

DREW WILEY

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No crime up there? ... in those narco counties .... ???? I had a friend murdered by growers back in those woods. And it can be pretty hot and dry somewhat inland, with terrible fires these days. Not everything is in the wet redwoodish fog belt, relatively safe for tourists.
Better view that well-researched documentary about what goes on around there, called Homegrown. It's narrated by Billie Bob Thornton,
aka Malcolm. Vaughn knows about it, and can certify how accurate it is.
 

wiltw

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Been living here 12 years, and I’m still kicking too. Had a very enjoyable day Saturday, spent it at Harvey Milk Photo Center at Duboce Park, printing in the darkroom which is run by SF Recreation and Parks. So it not all bad here in SF.

Roger

Wow, that darkroom is still in use!
I took a photography class during the second semester of my senior year in college (50 years ago). After the first week, I approached the instructor and told him about my lengthly background in photography. I ended up being his Teaching Assistant, getting paid hourly for my time spent, while also getting credit for the course! We used that darkroom as part of the class content, and I helped students during their first darkroom sessions there.
 

KerrKid

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So...if one photographer goes to SF and deems it safe that would be called a valid test of its safety? Seems a bit unscientific to me. Glad it's working out for Sirius, though.
 

wiltw

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So...if one photographer goes to SF and deems it safe that would be called a valid test of its safety? Seems a bit unscientific to me. Glad it's working out for Sirius, though.

For the other side of the coin:
  1. Feb 2021 Photographer car broken into and gear robbed while stuck in traffic
  2. May 2021 Videographer gear stolen at Crissy Field
  3. Nov 2021 filmmaker gear stolen in smash'n'grab in Japantown
  4. Nov 2021 photographer followed to Fremont home and robbed there
  5. Dec 2021 SF Chronicle photograher robbed in West Oakland
  6. Jan 2022 wedding photographer robbery attempt in the presence of the wedding couple on Nob Hill
  7. March 2022 Canadian video crew robbed
  8. November 2022 photographer shooting at Palace of Fine Arts assaulted with robbery attempted
  9. November 2022 second photographer at Palace of Fine Arts assaulted with robbery attempted
  10. Dec 2022 Videographer robbed
9 incidents in two years of pro photographers and videographers shooting in SF for TV coverage or wedding client photography sessions (CA marriages 3.2 per 1000, so SF had about 24000 marriages in 2022...risk: about 0.002% of marriages in SF (and not all the incidents were related to wedding jobs)
 

logan2z

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Been living here 12 years, and I’m still kicking too. Had a very enjoyable day Saturday, spent it at Harvey Milk Photo Center at Duboce Park, printing in the darkroom which is run by SF Recreation and Parks. So it not all bad here in SF.

Roger

I used to be a member there, that's where I learned to make prints. The 60 mile drive from the South Bay started to get old, though, so I ultimately set up my own darkroom at home. I do miss wandering the streets in the area taking photos and indulging in some goodies at the Duboce Park Cafe.
 
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Kino

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Looks like the 1970s' all over again...
 
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