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Instant Mytol Recipe

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Most likely it's because the shutter speed was 1/125th and it was quite windy, (I tried to wait for things to calm before exposing each frame) so there may be some motion blur in some frames.
I chose FP4 because it is so flat when dry, so there shouldn't be any issue with scanner focus. I might scan one of the other Xtol frames and see if it looks any difference. I suppose it's possible that FX-55 might not have the same grain solvent ability that Xtol has, due to the lack of sulfite.
Paul,
I wouldn't waste my time doing that extra scanning unless you feel like it. The difference could be just as you say, but whatever it is it isn't worth fretting over. I've been using mostly Foam films for testing cameras after repair/tune-up and find the curl and cupping makes a pretty fair film almost unusable for anything but testing. That's a problem I don't have with Ilford films, which makes it worth paying a few pennies more. I have pretty much given up trying to experiment with non-staining developers. Adox XT-3 replenished does all I want it to do and it lasts nearly forever. So, as for a Vitamin C developer it's my magic bullet. I did use Mytol, Karl R's PC-512 and Gainer's PC-TEA and there is nothing wrong with any of those. I guess it's different strokes for different folks!
 
In case you didn't know already, @relistan's PC-512 Borax uses fewer ingredients than Instant Mytol and is gaining a solid reputation as a XTol-like developer. Merits consideration.

Presently @relistan 's PC-512 Borax is my go to developer. It is really very good. Also it's produces commendable results for pushing, although I've tried only 1 stop till now.
 
I mixed up PC-512 last week and was very happy with the results. When I’ve worked through that I’ll give mytol and mocon a shot. I appreciate everyone hopping in with recipes :smile:
 
Presently @relistan 's PC-512 Borax is my go to developer. It is really very good. Also it's produces commendable results for pushing, although I've tried only 1 stop till now.
Awesome, glad it's doing the job!

I mixed up PC-512 last week and was very happy with the results. When I’ve worked through that I’ll give mytol and mocon a shot. I appreciate everyone hopping in with recipes :smile:

Great, yeah, give them all a try and see what does what you want.
 
Mytol--R

This has been a very informative post and covers a lot of what I was looking for, however, with all the different variants of Mytol (regular and instant), other than the concentrated iteration, which version do we feel has the best shelf-life? I've seen a few posts where people ask about replenishing Mytol, but have never seen where anyone has tried it.

In the past I had been using the "standard" Mytol formula with 60 grams sodium sulfite. In the 4th edition of The Darkroom Cookbook, the sodium sulfite is increased to 85 grams and sites increased shelf-life as the reason. It says the 60 grams formerly suggested was for increased sharpness, but that this was never realized.

Which version of Mytol might have the best shelf-life and, therefore, be best suited to replenishing? Or is there some reason I'm not thinking of that makes this a bad idea?
 
Mytol--R

This has been a very informative post and covers a lot of what I was looking for, however, with all the different variants of Mytol (regular and instant), other than the concentrated iteration, which version do we feel has the best shelf-life? I've seen a few posts where people ask about replenishing Mytol, but have never seen where anyone has tried it.

In the past I had been using the "standard" Mytol formula with 60 grams sodium sulfite. In the 4th edition of The Darkroom Cookbook, the sodium sulfite is increased to 85 grams and sites increased shelf-life as the reason. It says the 60 grams formerly suggested was for increased sharpness, but that this was never realized.

Which version of Mytol might have the best shelf-life and, therefore, be best suited to replenishing? Or is there some reason I'm not thinking of that makes this a bad idea?

Probably not the best direct answer to your question given your stated goal of trying replenishment, but the recipe I'm using here has, essentially, indefinite shelf-life, for the simple reason that it is stored dry (with the exception of phenidone which is stored in solution with propylene glycol). These "capsules" can sit there for years and should still work just fine when mixed up with distilled water immediately before use.
 
Probably not the best direct answer to your question given your stated goal of trying replenishment, but the recipe I'm using here has, essentially, indefinite shelf-life, for the simple reason that it is stored dry (with the exception of phenidone which is stored in solution with propylene glycol). These "capsules" can sit there for years and should still work just fine when mixed up with distilled water immediately before use.

Bruij,

I'd like to see what you're referring to, but that link won't open for me. Could you share the actual URL?

Yes--not exactly what I'm going for, but I can see the advantage of a capsule. My first objective is to cut costs just a bit more. My second objective is to not need to make a liter of developer every week or two by stretching it out a bit through replenishment. My favorite ratio is 1+1 and it doesn't last long especially if I use it for 4x5.
 
Bruij,

I'd like to see what you're referring to, but that link won't open for me. Could you share the actual URL?

Yes--not exactly what I'm going for, but I can see the advantage of a capsule. My first objective is to cut costs just a bit more. My second objective is to not need to make a liter of developer every week or two by stretching it out a bit through replenishment. My favorite ratio is 1+1 and it doesn't last long especially if I use it for 4x5.

My own needs for an Ascorbate developer is similar: most recipes (including Xtol) are either very short-lived in storage (Mytol), or are unreliable after a few months (Xtol, depending on how its stored) and so I have mostly quit using Xtol and Mytol and instead have gone to using FX-55, another Ascorbate/Phenidone developer that can be stored almost indefinitely, since you mix the three parts right before use. Yes, it's a bit more bother because you have to weight out the Ascorbate every time you make up the working solution, but the alkali components last for years in solution, and the Phenidone can be made up as a 1% solution in Glycol, and that lasts for 2 years or more. It's really not much trouble and the bonus is that it has a very long shelf life and is reliable and consistent every time you make it.
Results from FX-55 are nearly identical to Xtol and Mytol.
 
My own needs for an Ascorbate developer is similar: most recipes (including Xtol) are either very short-lived in storage (Mytol), or are unreliable after a few months (Xtol, depending on how its stored) and so I have mostly quit using Xtol and Mytol and instead have gone to using FX-55, another Ascorbate/Phenidone developer that can be stored almost indefinitely, since you mix the three parts right before use. Yes, it's a bit more bother because you have to weight out the Ascorbate every time you make up the working solution, but the alkali components last for years in solution, and the Phenidone can be made up as a 1% solution in Glycol, and that lasts for 2 years or more. It's really not much trouble and the bonus is that it has a very long shelf life and is reliable and consistent every time you make it.
Results from FX-55 are nearly identical to Xtol and Mytol.

Paul,
I've never tried FX-55, but have heard many good things about it. I'm sure some of those "things" are probably blown up a little, but the good things must out weigh the bad since FX-55 has a pretty strong following. I use Adox XT-3 replenished, which is basically the same as Xtol replenished and it works a treat. I'm wondering if you have tried Xtol replenished or just prefer FX-55? The only downside I can see to using Xtol in a replenishment system is that you are already working at an equivalent to a 1+1 or 1+2 dilution rate. Whereas with FX-55 you can use it as a full strength developer or a diluted one and still have a long shelf life. That's what I miss when using XT-3 replenished. There are times that I would like the smoother look of full strength. Like in a portrait or for a more softer, moody look.
 
Paul,
I've never tried FX-55, but have heard many good things about it. I'm sure some of those "things" are probably blown up a little, but the good things must out weigh the bad since FX-55 has a pretty strong following. I use Adox XT-3 replenished, which is basically the same as Xtol replenished and it works a treat. I'm wondering if you have tried Xtol replenished or just prefer FX-55? The only downside I can see to using Xtol in a replenishment system is that you are already working at an equivalent to a 1+1 or 1+2 dilution rate. Whereas with FX-55 you can use it as a full strength developer or a diluted one and still have a long shelf life. That's what I miss when using XT-3 replenished. There are times that I would like the smoother look of full strength. Like in a portrait or for a more softer, moody look.

I don't ever use a replenished developer system, I always use something more dilute, so I can't speak to that aspect of it.
 
I don't ever use a replenished developer system, I always use something more dilute, so I can't speak to that aspect of it.

Thanks Paul, I was just wondering that's all. I've had good luck with replenishment, but I know that other folks haven't. I still worry about the developer drifting, but so far, so good. You are right about being locked into one dilution with replenishment and that part I really don't care for. Trade offs I guess?
 
The only downside I can see to using Xtol in a replenishment system is that you are already working at an equivalent to a 1+1 or 1+2 dilution rate. Whereas with FX-55 you can use it as a full strength developer or a diluted one and still have a long shelf life. That's what I miss when using XT-3 replenished. There are times that I would like the smoother look of full strength. Like in a portrait or for a more softer, moody look.

How can you use Xtol replenished but diluted at the same time? When replenishing, you need to use the developer full strength and then top up the stock solution with some volume of replenisher for every roll, prior to readding the developer you just used. It can't be diluted. It's always full strength.
 
How can you use Xtol replenished but diluted at the same time? When replenishing, you need to use the developer full strength and then top up the stock solution with some volume of replenisher for every roll, prior to readding the developer you just used. It can't be diluted. It's always full strength.

He's saying you can't. You get it at stock and that's it.
 
He's saying you can't. You get it at stock and that's it.

Thanks Karl! I guess I didn't make myself very clear on that. Yes, being "locked in" on only one strength and not being able to dilute Xtol-R without screwing the whole system up is a drawback. Still, it's my main non-staining developer, but I do have a couple other developers I use when I want to go "one shot" or a certain dilution.
 
Don_ih,

You are absolutely correct--you cannot dilute replenished developer. I may have misspoke in my original question--there's a lot going on. As has already been expressed--there are a lot of tradeoffs with this and I'm thinking through them--unfortunately out loud!

Essentially I'm looking for an Xtol option that has a respectable shelf life. Usually Mytol has been the answer since I only make a liter at a time, but sometimes I walk away from it for a month using something else like 510 Pyro and when I come back to it, the Mytol has gone off. So the question is two-fold:
1--which of the several variants of Mytol and instant Mytol would we assume to have the best shelf life
2--is there some attribute contained in Xtol that makes it appropriate for replenishment that Mytol does not have?
 
1--which of the several variants of Mytol and instant Mytol would we assume to have the best shelf life
Did you see my comment about an alternative Ascorbate developer, FX-55? These Ascorbate developers all deliver pretty much identical results, whether it's Xtol, or Mytol, XT-3 or FX-55. But if shelf life is a major concern, FX-55 is probably your best option.
 
@Ohio Sean here's the URL - it's a page to download an STL file for printing a capsule I use for storing pre-measured Mytol ingredients (to make 250ml stock or 500ml 1:1), but it also has the recipe I'm using listed out on the page. https://www.printables.com/model/863318-instant-mytol-developer-capsule

As it happens, I printed four of those capsules to give to a friend with a developing kit when he was getting into shooting 35mm. The hobby fizzled out for him and he returned it. So if you decide you like Mytol, I'd be more than happy to send you those 4 capsules to use :D I keep 6 of them handy in my darkroom and refill them all when they run out. It's nice to be able to just dump one into 250ml of water and stir for a minute or two.

As for FX-55, I have recently played around with it a bit to see if I liked it better than Mytol. The classic version is liquid Part A concentrate that's basically just alkali, and stays good on the shelf indefinitely. Then you just diulte that with water and add a pinch of sodium ascorbate and a few drops of phenidone solution in propylene glycol, immediately before use.

I have also been corresponding with @measwel for quite some time about variations on FX-55. We were both doing some experiments - he wanted to build a system where he could have a universal Part A liquid that would combine to make either FX-55 or something akin to E-72 paper developer. I just wanted to test out FX-55 to see if I liked it. There were a lot of claims by John Finch of Pictorial Planet (significant speed increases, incredibly fine grain, some kind of impalpable magic in the midtones, etc.) that had me curious. I also figured it might be worth figuring out some way to do a liquid Part B so I could easily mix it up like Pyrocat HD instead of weighing and measuring phenidone and sodium ascorbate separately.

The theory and stoichiometry has been worked out on paper to use ascorbic acid and phenidone in glycol to make a liquid Part B that is shelf stable, with a slight increase in the potassium carbonate in Part A to replace the lost sodium from not using sodium ascorbate (which is terrible for dissolving in glycol). But I haven't actually tried it yet to confirm whether the results bear out the same.

My testing is not done, and has admittedly stalled out a bit. But as a baseline, I did do some close comparisons of 35mm HP5+ in Mytol stock vs standard FX-55 diluted to 50% strength. I found for a fast cubic film like this in such a small format, I preferred Mytol. It had an edge over FX-55 on finer grain. I suspect this has to do with the increased solvent action from a higher concentration of sulfite, but I'm no chemist. My next intention was to do a shootout between the two developers with Delta 100, where grain is inherently far less of an issue. I haven't gotten around to completing that test yet.

All that said, the difference was so slight (even in 35mm HP5+) that the convenience of FX-55 might well be worth more than the marginal and subjective improvement in grain I get from Mytol. I have switched to FX-55 as my go-to in medium and large format for HP5+ where grain is a nonissue. The 50% strength version has pretty long dev times, but it's dilute enough that it seems to give me some highlight compensation even in my rotary processing setup that I use for sheet film, so it doesn't build contrast too quickly, and still gives me really excellent film speed. For FP4+ I still prefer Pyrocat. I don't really shoot Delta 100 in formats larger than 35mm.

Anyway, my n=1 experience and $0.02 worth of rambling on the subject. Both Instant Mytol and FX-55 are great developers in my experience, and frankly so similar in makeup and results that it's a little silly to be comparing them side by side in the first place. One of those projects that has me frequently taking a step back and asking, "shouldn't I just be spending this time taking photos?"
 
Essentially I'm looking for an Xtol option that has a respectable shelf life.

I haven't missed Xtol since I made some PC512 Borax. The grain is smooth, It's all liquids, keeps forever and you only need three ingredients.
 
I also figured it might be worth figuring out some way to do a liquid Part B so I could easily mix it up like Pyrocat HD instead of weighing and measuring phenidone and sodium ascorbate separately.
Thank you for your great comparison and insight into Mytol vs FX-55.

Gainer made a liquid part B, described also on https://www.pictorialplanet.com/advanced_photography/fx-55.html


Copied from John Finch's page:
Propylene Glycol 50C 150ml
Ascorbic acid 13g
Triethanolamine (TEA) 30g - easier to weigh*
Phenidone 1g
Propylene glycol up to 200ml
 
Last edited:
He's saying you can't. You get it at stock and that's it.

See:

The only downside I can see to using Xtol in a replenishment system is that you are already working at an equivalent to a 1+1 or 1+2 dilution rate.

I assumed "you" was a non-specific universal and not a particular individual.

Anyway, Instant Mytol can be mixed up on the spot at whatever dilution anyone wants. The only thing you need to keep in a glycol solution is phenidone - everything else dissolves in a few minutes. Everything lasts forever that way, and you can use the phenidone solution in other things.
 
See:



I assumed "you" was a non-specific universal and not a particular individual.

Anyway, Instant Mytol can be mixed up on the spot at whatever dilution anyone wants. The only thing you need to keep in a glycol solution is phenidone - everything else dissolves in a few minutes. Everything lasts forever that way, and you can use the phenidone solution in other things.
👍
 
Thank you for your great comparison and insight into Mytol vs FX-55.

Gainer made a liquid part B, described also on https://www.pictorialplanet.com/advanced_photography/fx-55.html


Copied from John Finch's page:
Propylene Glycol 50C 150ml
Ascorbic acid 13g
Triethanolamine (TEA) 30g - easier to weigh*
Phenidone 1g
Propylene glycol up to 200ml

Yep - I was trying to get one that came closer to Crawley's original formula when everything was said and done. Specifically I didn't want TEA in there. The TEA makes it way easier to dissolve the ascorbic acid and phenidone in a smaller quantity of propylene glycol, but I don't know what else it does - might change pH, might affect activity or grain structure. Maybe not. But Crawley's FX-55 recipe doesn't have TEA in it, and I'd argue that introducing it, even in small quantities, means you're no longer using FX-55 anymore.

In theory, when I mix up my own Part B, the only difference from Crawley's original formula is that a tiny amount of water is replaced by glycol, and the sodium ascorbate is replaced by potassium ascorbate.
 
Yep - I was trying to get one that came closer to Crawley's original formula when everything was said and done. Specifically I didn't want TEA in there. The TEA makes it way easier to dissolve the ascorbic acid and phenidone in a smaller quantity of propylene glycol, but I don't know what else it does - might change pH, might affect activity or grain structure. Maybe not. But Crawley's FX-55 recipe doesn't have TEA in it, and I'd argue that introducing it, even in small quantities, means you're no longer using FX-55 anymore.

In theory, when I mix up my own Part B, the only difference from Crawley's original formula is that a tiny amount of water is replaced by glycol, and the sodium ascorbate is replaced by potassium ascorbate.

I get the Idea and your point about the TEA. The TEA does the adjusting Part to compensate for the acidity of the ascorbic acid used.
Also the TEA might act as a weak cleating agent.

It would be interesting to compare “original FX-55” to the Gainer mod version and maybe to your mod
 
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