I'm afraid of my JOBO... Help me to be brave

[Matthew Cherry]

So I have a JOBO CPP2 that I've been using for processing C41 and E6. I love it, so much so in fact that I'm considering upgrading to the new CPP3.

But I have never developed B&W in it. I either tray develop or dip and dunk my LF negs (4x5 & 8x10) and use tanks for 120. Always have.

But I know it's there, right over there in the corner, mocking me...

I'm about to do a complete testing and overhaul of my film/developer/processor choices to try and achieve a particular look (just dusted off my densitometer). I hadn't considered rotary processing as part of the equation, but as long as I'm going to go through the process, I probably should right?

I know there are those who use a rotary processor for B&W, but most I have spoken with always have (or didn't have much experience hand developing B&W film). So my question is, did you make the switch and, if so, how did you go about establishing your film/developer combinations and times?

Thanks!

 

[Shawn Dougherty]

I have nothing to contribute as I have never used a JOBO but wanted to thank you for the laugh. Great thread title. =P

 

[ic-racer]

No way to know how to compare your "hand" technique to your Jobo technique on an empirical basis due to the many factors involved. Easiest is to just check your existing contrast with hand processing by using your densitometer and a makeshift sensitometer and adjust the Jobo time and temp to match the slope of the curve.
4x5 can be processed in 2500 tanks or 3000 tanks
8x10 can be processed in 2800 tanks or 3000 tanks.

 

[Bob Carnie]

I own the new CPP3 and its great for black and white. Before this unit I used all auto units like the Alt2300 and Alt 3, they were the mainstay of my film processing .

I really like operating the CPP3 and highly recommend it.

 

[wildbill]

First of all, do you just have $$$ laying around? You can mail me some of it then you won't have to worry about that cpp3.
Secondly, what's the cpp2 not doing for you that makes you wan't to upgrade? Live View, more megapixels?
Once I used my jobo, I could never go back to hand processing. Some folks reduce their times by 15% or so, I do not.

 

[Ed Bray]

I had very mixed results when rotary processing with 2800 series drums on a CPE2 without lift and then a CPP2 with lift, I have since bought 3010 and 3006 Expert drums and they are just great on the CPP2 and the only duff negatives I get now are when I do something wrong. I shoot 4x5 and 5x7.

If your CPP2 is an early model without the upgraded motor and lift then a CPP3 and a couple of Expert Drums 3005 (8x10) and 3010 (4x5) and you will be good to go. Then you will need to do some testing and your densitometer will be invaluable.

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

I have a CPP2+ with the lift, and I run all my LF film through it in Expert (3000 series) drums. I've been very happy using the recommendations from the Massive Dev Chart as times/temps for my b/w film. I tend to run my developer a little hot as in the summer I can't get water out of my tap cooler than 75F, and that doesn't bother me at all because I'm usually developing my film for printing Pt/Pd, so I need the extra contrast.

 

[Matthew Cherry]

First of all, do you just have $$$ laying around? You can mail me some of it then you won't have to worry about that cpp3.
Secondly, what's the cpp2 not doing for you that makes you wan't to upgrade? Live View, more megapixels?
Once I used my jobo, I could never go back to hand processing. Some folks reduce their times by 15% or so, I do not.

LOL, yes, I'm just made of money! Unfortunately it's not a currency that anyone seems to accept...

The unit is an older one and it's getting a bit long in the tooth (kind of like me). Take the water pump a while to get pumping... Also, it has an older motor and I'd really like to be able to use the expert drums.

I figure this one lasted over thirty years. If I buy one of the new ones and it lasts thirty years, by the time it breaks down, it'll be someone else's problem...

 

[LJH]

It's absolutely easy in the CPP.

As someone mentioned, look up Massive Dev and look through the combinations of films v developers.

There are heaps of options for constant agitation developing combinations.

 

[Matthew Cherry]

I have a CPP2+ with the lift, and I run all my LF film through it in Expert (3000 series) drums. I've been very happy using the recommendations from the Massive Dev Chart as times/temps for my b/w film. I tend to run my developer a little hot as in the summer I can't get water out of my tap cooler than 75F, and that doesn't bother me at all because I'm usually developing my film for printing Pt/Pd, so I need the extra contrast.

You raise another question!

(this place is great)

I have a nearly new water chiller from a reef aquarium that I dismantled. I'm thinking of plumbing it into the jobo. Have you ever considered that? I just need to figure out which pump to use to make sure the flow is good.

 

[Matthew Cherry]

It's absolutely easy in the CPP.

As someone mentioned, look up Massive Dev and look through the combinations of films v developers.

There are heaps of options for constant agitation developing combinations.

Thank you, I'm heading over there now. I guess what I was really asking is, do you get the same results, or will it always be grainer or more contrasty, etc?

 

[Matthew Cherry]

Ok, so I went over to the massive dev chart site and I couldn't find anything for rotary development/constant agitation.

Did you guys hide it on me?

Where's the camera???

 

[Mark_S]

I made the switch from hard rubber tanks and hangers to the Jobo. My methodology probably helped, in that what I do is set up the camera, then expose both sides of the film holder identically. I note what development I want on a card which records the exposure, and gets kept with the film holder.

When I go to process the film, I process one sheet according to what I have noted on my card, and then inspect it, and possibly do a test print or two. I then decide if I want to:

(A) Process the second exposure the same way as I did the first.
(B) Adjust the negative contrast by processing the second sheet differently
(C) Toss both sheets of film and pretend that they never happened

Having that second sheet helps to give me some margin in the actual processing time. FWIW, I always use Ilford HP5+, and develop in Ilfosol HC, 1+31, and nominal development is 6 mins, I then add or subtract time in 2 min increments to increase or decrease contrast. I use the Jobo sheet film spiral reels, and always process B&W at 20C.

 

[Matthew Cherry]

Thank you Mark. That does make a tremendous amount of sense and for my nightscape work, I could certainly employ your methodology. However, I shoot mostly people (both MF and LF) and I'd hate to have to sacrifice a shot. That's why I'm trying to get a process dialed in.

I even got a densitometer to do this and I haven't used one of them since school....

 

[StoneNYC]

Thank you Mark. That does make a tremendous amount of sense and for my nightscape work, I could certainly employ your methodology. However, I shoot mostly people (both MF and LF) and I'd hate to have to sacrifice a shot. That's why I'm trying to get a process dialed in.

I even got a densitometer to do this and I haven't used one of them since school....

If you shoot people his method would still work, especially if you use lighting that is always constant, then you can simply take a test shot, use that to adjust, then process the rest of the sheets the same...


~Stone | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Sirius Glass]

So I have a JOBO CPP2 that I've been using for processing C41 and E6. I love it, so much so in fact that I'm considering upgrading to the new CPP3.

But I have never developed B&W in it. I either tray develop or dip and dunk my LF negs (4x5 & 8x10) and use tanks for 120. Always have.

But I know it's there, right over there in the corner, mocking me...

I'm about to do a complete testing and overhaul of my film/developer/processor choices to try and achieve a particular look (just dusted off my densitometer). I hadn't considered rotary processing as part of the equation, but as long as I'm going to go through the process, I probably should right?

I know there are those who use a rotary processor for B&W, but most I have spoken with always have (or didn't have much experience hand developing B&W film). So my question is, did you make the switch and, if so, how did you go about establishing your film/developer combinations and times?

Thanks!

I found that by following the developer manufacturer black & white development instructions that the results have shown me that modifying the slightly may improve results, otherwise just follow the written instructions. The only deviation that I have found useful is that with Kodak XTOL and Ilford black & white film, the one minute needs to be added to the development time before adjusting for the temperature.

 

[Rolfe Tessem]

Back when Jobo was selling tons of these things, they published a lot of technical material to support those switching from inversion to rotary processing. Almost without fail, Jobo's testing determined that a 5 minute pre-wet just about exactly compensated for the faster developing action induced by continuous agitation.

Bottom line, use a five minute water pre-wet, and then just use the times for inversion processing that you find from the manufacturer, the massive development chart, or wherever.

The only thing to be aware of here is that Kodak came out with Xtol AFTER rotary processing was popular, so the numbers Kodak publishes for rotary processing with Xtol assume no prewet.

Pretty much dirt simple...

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

Ok, so I went over to the massive dev chart site and I couldn't find anything for rotary development/constant agitation.

Did you guys hide it on me?

Where's the camera???

Click on the "Notes" label at the end of the row to see comments about things like rotary processing times, etc. But as previously mentioned, a good pre-wet is sufficient to let you use the same times for rotary as inversion processing.

 

[Matthew Cherry]

Ok, I'm stoked. Printing some shots of a very lovely girl with no inhibitions that I took sailing last weekend tonight. Tomorrow, I face my JOBO fears head on!

 

[StoneNYC]

Ok, I'm stoked. Printing some shots of a very lovely girl with no inhibitions that I took sailing last weekend tonight. Tomorrow, I face my JOBO fears head on!

Better post those to the gallery


~Stone | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[jerrybro]

Jobo for black and white film? It is the only way, IMHO. I've read things about increased grain and unpredictable mottling and hair falling out and.... I saw none of it, well, maybe the hair Once I calibrated my process I was getting negatives that were easy to print to match what I pre-visualized. For me, everything changed with a Jobo, a densitometer, and a Stouffer step tablet.

 

[jerrybro]

...and a spot meter, can't forget that.

 

[Matthew Cherry]

I'm really kind of torn on the calibration process.

Again, it's because I've spent so much time over the past few years shooting people. Occasionally they are LF portraits, where I can go Zone, but often its more fashion oriented, and I'm not metering in that way. So I guess I'm not sure on the best calibration system. I will most likely go the full route for zone and then try to drill down to the look I'm after with people, which I think is going to be gotten by underexposing either HP4, HP5 or TriX and then pushing it in development. Probably with a yellow green filter. Not sure how I would test for that other than how I always have, by eye.

 

[Matthew Cherry]

Better post those to the gallery


~Stone | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

Apparently I need to subscribe to do that. I'll look into that tomorrow.

She's looking great, btw.

I just need to make a mask now so I can burn a gradient into the sky without effecting her... Hopefully by the time I subscribe the print will actually be done. lol

 

[jerrybro]

I did an environmental portrait of my mother and her sisters years ago, all zone. Green filter on 4x5' meter the shadows, determine where I wanted the highlights for development. Expose. Develop. Contact print. Test print at 8x10. Print 25 8x10s and 4 11x14s. Dry mounted the 11x14s at 16x20. They cried when presented the prints.

Zone is all about knowing exactly what your film and paper will do. When you have the film and paper under control you can get the print you hope for pretty easily.