I'm a Teen Looking to Learn to Develop B&W Film

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wclark5179

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Welcome!

Both you & I have received some good advice here.

Stay involved with film lovers and this web site as we love to use it to make photographs!

Nice to have someone your age here.

Making mistakes is normal. I have always thought that when using a darkroom the garbage can is a good friend!

Take care!
 

2F/2F

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Anyway, I thought I'd join APUG to have somewhere I could turn to for help/advice. I mostly want to learn this myself (rather than taking a course), as I have for all my photographic knowledge.

And yes, I already have a few questions (is this the wrong forum to ask?). I found an online guide, but I'm not sure how necessarily good it is.

I've also created a "shopping list", yet I'm not sure if I'm missing something or I chose something that's incompatible or I'm just making a stupid mistake:

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I've already got protective sleeves for storage, and I didn't include anything I might need for printing because I'm not sure if I want to take that road yet—for now scans are perfectly alright.

Hi, and welcome.

I would look for a good basic text, like "Photography" by London and Upton (or Upton and Upton in some editions). I would not rule out classes, however. See if you can get advanced placement into a community college photo program, so you can get some college units out of the way. If you decide to major in photography some day, it will really stink to have to take the basic class after having been doing it for so long already. You will learn quite a bit that you would not learn alone as well.

Now, on to your shopping list. There are some notes I'll make:

1. I suggest that you get your stuff from Freestyle instead of Adorama. This is a business that specializes in analog and alternative photography, and works with many artists and educators in the community to promote these things.

2. Instead of 35mm Tri-X, get Arista Premium 400. It is the same film, but half the price...and by "the same," I mean the same.

3. Good-ol' D-76 is a great developer, but you may find HC-110 easier to work with (it is a liquid instead of a powder that must be mixed at temperture, like D-76, X-Tol, etc.), more consistent with age, and that you always get near 100% use out of your bottle of concentrate, which is a little harder to do with the U-mix powdered developers. With HC-110, read the instructions carefully. It is very easy to use if you simply follow the instructions, but there is no end to the number of first timers who DON'T READ THE LABEL and mess it up, thus severely over or underdeveloping their first films. If you read and follow the developer's instructions, you will not mess up your film.

4. Modern films (i.e. everything but Efke and Adox) do not need to be hardened, and this actually makes washing more difficult (i.e. harder to do right, and more wasteful of water). You don't have to mix in the hardener if you get that fixer. I would skip it.

5. Also, that fixer is powdered. Personally, I find this to be a PITA, especially for a beginner. I suggest purchasing a liquid concentrate non-hardening fixer such as Ilford Rapid Fixer or Hypam (same as Rapid Fixer, but cheaper, and allows you to add a hardener if you need one for certain applications). Kodak makes a liquid concentrate rapid fixer as well, called Kodafix Solution, but it contains a hardener. The Ilford fixer is rather expensive, however, when you compare it to Kodak's Flexicolor color fixer (non hardening), which in my short experience with it is a brilliant solution to fixing both films and papers. It costs under $8 for a whole gallon of the concentrate, which is then diluted to one-tenth strength to fix papers, or one-quarter strength to fix films. It is cheap, non hardening, and goes a long way. The fact that it is actually a color fixer does not matter. It does the job perfectly. Another gem picked up here on A.P.U.G. (from fschifano, with technical information provided by Photo Engineer).

6. The Photo-Flo 200 is good. A syringe will help you measure out the concentrate. You need one that will measure up to at least 5 mL, so you can easily make up a liter or working solution (the "200" means that it is mixed 1:200 from the concentrate, so to make a liter of working solution, you need 5 mL of concentrate).

7. You skipped stop bath in your list. It is good to use, as it treats your fixer better, and makes it last longer. I use Kodak Indicator Stop Bath, as it tells you when it is kaput by changing color, and a little goes a very, very, very long way. A small, sub-$10 bottle will likely last you years. A medicine cup (like the plastic ones that come with a bottle of Ny-Quil) are perfect for measuring out stop the stop bath concentrate, as they are marked with 7.5 mL, 15 mL, 30 mL, etc. (It is actually 16 mL per liter, but 15 is fine for such a non critical chemical.)

8. You should invest in some Hypo Clearing Agent. It will save water and help your films and papers wash more thoroughly. Generic versions ("Legacy Pro") are cheap at Freestyle.

9. About your sleeves. I highly recommend against using page-type negative files to stow your film. They get very scratched, let a lot of gunk in, and rub together when being carried, and can damage your negs. I suggest starting your high-quality archiving NOW, before it gets too hard to do later, when you have piles and piles of negative stuffed into every nook and cranny of your house. I use plastines, with my cut strips in a stack inside each sleeve. However, I am thinking about switching over to the lab-style clear sleeves in archival envelopes, to keep each strip separated. (I have heard horror stories about negs sticking together over time when they are stacked.) This way really protects your negatives much better than the binder-type sleeves. Super speedy proofing becomes more difficult, however. Low price to pay for keeping your film in good shape, however.

10. For the beakers, try local classifieds and E-Bay. They will be rather pricey new. Maybe just get a one liter one to get you started.

11. Storage bottles are very important. You need bottles that are the right size for common photo chemical volumes, and that keep air out. You need a variety of sizes, so you can decant chemicals to keep the air in the bottle to a minimum as you use your chemicals up. I'd start out by getting several plastic bottles full of drinking water. Get some that are one liter, some that are 500 mL, and some that are 250 mL (teeny). Other helpful sizes are 2 L and 5 L.

12. I'd get a used Nikkor developing tank and reels here on A.P.U.G., on E-Bay, or in local classifieds before buying them new. They are dirt cheap used, compared to their off-the-shelf prices.

One more suggestion: Do yourself a big favor, and use the metric system when performing your acts of analog photography. (My only exception is when using HC-110, as it is a bit easier to measure out the 1:31, 1:15, etc. dilutions. It was, after all, designed using quarts, ounces, and other such silly things.) The metric system is way quicker, easier, less confusing, less error prone, and more worldly universal. Head math doesn't get much easier than when using powers of ten. The only thing you have to know to use the metric system with fluids is how many zeros each common prefix corresponds to. With standard photographic chemical volumes, all you really need to know is what "milli" means: x10⁻³. In other words, move your decimal three places to the left and fill any gaps with zeroes. 1/1000, in even other words. The liter is your basic measure of volume that you work with. You attach prefixes to liters to show either how many multiple liters or how many parts of a liter there are. Milliliters are each a 1/1000th part of a liter (and can also be expressed as cubic centimeters, or grams of water).

Good luck! Have fun! Watch your light! (It is, after all, everything in photography.)
 
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srs5694

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You've been getting a lot of good advice. My $0.02, which is mostly just to emphasize points that have been made but haven't gotten much discussion:

  • Don't get too hung up on the brand of chemicals you use. The developer is the only one that will make any difference to image quality, and all the mainstream chemicals (D-76, ID-11, XTOL, HC-110, etc.) are similar enough that somebody new to film developing will be hard-pressed to tell the difference between their results. Pick based on price, availability, and convenience. Stop bath, fixer, and other chemicals won't make a difference in image quality, if used properly, although some choices may be more convenient than others. "Rapid" fixers, for instance, work faster than standard fixers. Rapid fixers are also usually liquids, vs. powders for most non-rapid fixers.
  • A hypo clearing agent (HCA), although not necessary, will save water when used with most fixers. (Some fixers wash out more quickly than others, though, so an HCA doesn't always reduce wash times that much. Check the fixer's instructions for washing recommendations.)
  • Follow the manufacturer's directions for use of their chemicals. If a Web site or book gives conflicting instructions, ignore it and follow the manufacturer's instructions. For this reason, it can be beneficial to stick to one manufacturer's line of products, since their instructions are likely to be consistent and there'll be less chance for finger-pointing should problems occur and you contact manufacturers for help. Once you're more experienced, you can easily mix-and-match manufacturers (a Kodak developer with a Sprint fixer, for instance).
  • One partial exception to the preceding: You may need to tweak your development time because there are so many variables that are hard to quantify or that may vary a bit -- your thermometer may be a degree or two off, your agitation style may be different from what the manufacturer used, you may need different results for your particular print-making process, etc. If the manufacturer recommends an 8:00 development time but you find that produces negatives that are too thin, by all means increase the time to 8:15 or 8:30 or even higher if necessary.
  • You may find that you'll need a different degree of development for scanning vs. traditional darkroom printing, and even darkroom printing requirements may vary with the enlarger you're using or even the paper on which you print. Scanning can be tricky when starting out because scanners and software tend to automatically correct for a wide range of exposures and degrees of development, making it hard to judge when a negative is properly exposed and developed. You may want to work by eye, judging negatives against others -- say, negatives from your parents' or grandparents' collections, if they've got B&W negatives. (Color negatives have a very different look.) Another tip: You should be able to just barely see through the darkest part of a negative (where it's completely fogged). If you can see through it too easily, it's underdeveloped; and if you can't read newsprint through it, it's overdeveloped.
  • Tank choice is very much a personal preference issue. Personally, I much prefer SS tanks with Hewes reels, but SS tanks with non-Hewes reels are much harder to deal with. I find that plastic tanks sometimes jam up mid-load, particularly in humid conditions. (Water makes plastic tanks very hard to load.) You may be able to find a Hewes reel on eBay for significantly less than the price of a new one; but there's a chance that it'll be bent and therefore nearly useless. Ya pays your money and ya takes your chances.... If you're looking to cut costs when starting out, starting with plastic can certainly make sense. Then if you have problems, try SS with a Hewes reel.
 
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alphanikonrex

alphanikonrex

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Thanks again everyone for all the advice. Unfortunately I got busy and my order will have to wait till Monday before it's processed, but I suppose I can get another look over since I made so many changes from my first post!

So my final decision is to get the Sprint Chemicals (as they are liquids I'll have ease-of-use) and a plastic tank/reel for one 35mm film...later I can get a larger stainless steel tank with good reels, as of right now I want to be able to the film on the reel!

I'm all set with Tri-X, a thermometer, graduates, storage containers, scissors, a bottle opener, gloves, and my F2 of course :D ...can't think of what I might be missing. I've got all my printouts and things organized in a binder, so I should be all set? Very excited...I'm still looking for a good dark place, but I have another place in mind I need to check.
 

MattKing

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A suggestion about a dark place:

If you have a closet or room that is easy to make dark at night, but harder to make dark during the day, you can always load your tanks and reels at night and then do your developing the next day (or even later!).

Just remember to label the loaded tank appropriately!

And if you are going to start with plastic reels, you may as well start with the tanks that take two 35mm reels.
 

Ektagraphic

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Glad another younger person has come along :D....As far as a dark place, you could get a darkbag that is a lightight bag that you could put everthing into and then sticks your hands into to do the whole process in the bag with the lights on. You seem to be heading in the right direciton though! Congradulations! I have used Sprint Chemicals and they do work very nicely. A very easy system to use.
 
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alphanikonrex

alphanikonrex

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Wonderful to hear from someone my age...very happy that I chose the Sprint chemistry then!

I'm not crazy about a dark bag, but last night I checked out my "dark place" and it seems good to me...I think. I definitely couldn't see at all, and there are no lights or windows or doorways or anywhere that light could possibly come from. I'm 99.99% sure this is the place, yet is there really a way to "know" (or check)? (Of course, without destroying your first batch of film!)
 

winger

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Wonderful to hear from someone my age...very happy that I chose the Sprint chemistry then!

I'm not crazy about a dark bag, but last night I checked out my "dark place" and it seems good to me...I think. I definitely couldn't see at all, and there are no lights or windows or doorways or anywhere that light could possibly come from. I'm 99.99% sure this is the place, yet is there really a way to "know" (or check)? (Of course, without destroying your first batch of film!)

Go into the space, make it dark, and then sit there for at least 20 minutes. Close your eyes for a bit as well to help adjust. If light is getting in, you will likely be able to see it after 15-20 minutes (having younger eyes will probably help). But be patient and give it full time.
That said, I was putting the 2nd of 2 rolls of HP5 on a reel and realized I could sorta see what I was doing. Both rolls came out fine.
 

removed account4

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Go into the space, make it dark, and then sit there for at least 20 minutes. Close your eyes for a bit as well to help adjust. If light is getting in, you will likely be able to see it after 15-20 minutes (having younger eyes will probably help). But be patient and give it full time.
That said, I was putting the 2nd of 2 rolls of HP5 on a reel and realized I could sorta see what I was doing. Both rolls came out fine.

you said it beth !
it takes a lot of light
to expose film.

i processed about 35 sheets of tmy (400 ) a few summers ago
in open trays in my father in law's laundry room ... in the moonlight ...
 

fschifano

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I takes quite a bit of light to completely ruin film, but not that much to cause a little bit of fog. Even a little bit of fog can wipe out delicate highlights and make the middle range go murky. It's not good news for shadow detail either, and is often the reason behind the otherwise unexplainable and seemingly random dark streaks across your negatives that will happen from time to time. All together it's not a good thing, and you can't be cavalier about it. Ask me how I know this.
 
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alphanikonrex

alphanikonrex

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So I sat around for 10ish minutes in the dark, and it definitely IS dark. There's one small light I discovered (on an outlet!?) that I think I'll tape over to be safe, but for the most part I think I should be alright. And since it's not completely destructive to the negative either, if there is a little light nothing will go terribly wrong. At least I'll get a messy sort of outcome!

BTW JBrunner, I checked out your videos and they are absolutely hilarious! I had a good laugh while watching, and for the most part I was able to follow along on my printouts. Thanks for sharing :D
 

Ektagraphic

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Brunner has a great one with large format and bacon :D
 

nick mulder

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Hey Arman,

Welcome to APUG from chilly New Zealand :wink:

You're picking up photography about the same age that I did - trust me there is HEAPS to learn if you want, never ending really, which is one of the reasons I'm interested all these years later...

But like I think someone said earlier, pretty easy to get results straight away - best of both worlds really :wink:

Nice to see you with a Nikon and a fast lens also - so many younger people get hung up on Holga/Lomo gear - don't do it ! well, of course - go ahead if you want to, especially if you want to give 120/medium format a go. But you've got a sweet camera right there - I had a Pentax K1000, which is still fine with me but had a poop Sigma zoom on it which is now in bits
 

Alex1994

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Hey there, I'm a teen looking to learn B&W developing as well, I'm going to get started with FP4+ and D-76 very soon as well. Best of luck with the developing.
 
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alphanikonrex

alphanikonrex

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Hehe, I'll learn large format next summer :wink: What will my parents say then?! :surprised:

Hi Nick - Yes, you are totally right—I'm already finding myself overwhelmed with so many options! All the simple stuff I'll be doing in the next weeks will not even be a brush on the surface of analog photography...quite amazing, in my opinion.

I absolutely love my F2 Photomic—it belonged to my grandfather—yet I've totally left it neglected for too long. I've seen the images it can make, after spending a short few summer months with it several years ago. It's an incredible camera, together with its 55mm ƒ/1.2 lens, and in a way I feel I owe this to the camera. This is what it was made for, this is how it was used for so many years, and now that it's fallen into my hands it's my responsibility to continue its legacy.

(On the other hand, I've had a sort of love/hate relationship with the lens...with it on my newer Nikon bodies I've created fabulous images, yet being a pre-Ai lens it caused a little "accident" on my D300...ah well.)

Hello Alex - That makes three of us now :smile: Good luck to you too—I think we're hopping onto a boundless journey to which we pave our own road!
 
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alphanikonrex

alphanikonrex

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My stuff arrived! Very excited...I may be able to develop my first roll tonight!

So I did a practice run with an expired roll of film, and all I can say is it's a LOT easier to get the film on then I could have imagined. I have one small problem though...I can't get the film off my reel!!!

Really want to get started—I just need to take some pictures first... :D
 

MattKing

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My stuff arrived! Very excited...I may be able to develop my first roll tonight!

So I did a practice run with an expired roll of film, and all I can say is it's a LOT easier to get the film on then I could have imagined. I have one small problem though...I can't get the film off my reel!!!

Really want to get started—I just need to take some pictures first... :D

Which reels did you get? If they are plastic, you can just turn them firmly backwards, they will "click" and then can be pulled apart.

Have fun!
 
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alphanikonrex

alphanikonrex

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LOL...wow, so simple. And I was here trying to tug the film off!

You're right...it clicks, the two reels come apart, and roll nicely "swiffs" (onomatopoeia) into a roll. Pretty nifty!

Thanks for the help.
 
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alphanikonrex

alphanikonrex

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Well...

I did it!!! :D

My images came out....I'm so very very happy! My brother was a big help with the timekeeping...I'll keep you guys posted once I finish cleaning up!
 
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