I'm a Teen Looking to Learn to Develop B&W Film

[fschifano]

What you observed is quite common. The response of a CCD or CMOS sensor and its associated electronics bears no resemblance to the way film responds to light, so the meter readings can be off - often by a lot. Just for kicks though, what happens if you put fresh batteries in the F2? Do the meter readings change? You might have a weak cell in there.

 

[alphanikonrex]

I popped in a new pair of batteries, and no change in my read out. I've developed my second roll which came out just as the first—definitely over-exposed. I think it may be overly-contrasty as well, but I'll deal with that variable on my fourth roll.

Currently I'm exposing my third roll as if its ISO800, in hopes to compensate for the over-exposed results I've been getting. This may not be the best idea, but I'll see how the results come out...

 

[fschifano]

It's not at all unusual for a meter that old to be off. I've got an old F Photomic that suggests three stops of under exposure all the time. New batteries didn't help there either. No big deal. But getting your contrast under control is a big deal. I'm really thinking that your thermometer is either reading low by a couple of degrees, or you're getting a significant temperature rise during the development process. I keep my development tank in a tempered bath during development and that helps a lot. Temperatures are stable to 1/2 degree F according to my thermometer for the duration, and that's plenty good.

 

[alphanikonrex]

. . . or you're getting a significant temperature rise during the development process.

That's very plausible, considering the temperature here in MA has been in the 80s and 90s recently. And the developer could easily rise in temperature simply when it's sitting...I haven't set up a bath to keep the chemicals in, I just measure the temperature of the water I use to make my mixtures. After that they sit for a while when I do other preparations—which would be the cause. So I haven't really been that much on top of temperature, but certainly more than the first time when I carried out thermometer-free.

But rather than messing with temperature, what if I just shortened my developing time by like 30 seconds to a minute? That would be easier for me to work with.

 

[keithwms]

Alphanikonrex, most developers I've used have time/temp curves that you can use. The times are designed to get roughly the same contrast index out of the film, across a range of temps. That's what you need to look up for your developer. If you're not willing to standardize your temp, then you've got no alternative but to find the right time/temp curve for your film/dev combo and use it! Otherwise your contrast index can vary wildly. You don't want that to happen, it's one of very easiest things to solve, so you want to pick your battles.

 

[alphanikonrex]

I did some searching, however I was unable to find any sort of curve for the Sprint Standard developer.

I did, however, bump into this.

Sprint has a table of suggested times on the bottle, but I'd avoid them as they get to be awfully generous and lead to contrasty negatives. It is better to call the developer D76/ID11 and use the recommendation packaged with the film, or the maker's website.​

Does anyone who work with Sprint know about/agree with that? It would definitely explain my own results anyway...

 

[clayne]

Okay alpha, since you're still new and don't have a handle on things, nor will you for a while - as any beginner wouldn't, try and find the closest developer you can to D-76. Learn the nuances of this developer. Figure out the meter issue, process the film without freaking out about it too much, and above all else - make photographs. Don't get overly caught up in obsessing about technical details - or you won't have jack to show for it 20 years from now. Get it?

 

[keithwms]

Alpha, isn't this what you need?

http://www.sprintsystems.com/film_chart.php
http://www.sprintsystems.com/filmchartexp.htm

If you need times in between the values given, just interpolate and be sure to write down your times so you have something to go by. I personally would not try temps higher than 75F, mind you.

I kinda agree with clayne about d76. But, the principal is the same regardless of developer: you want to standardize and remove as many variables as possible at this stage.

 

[alphanikonrex]

LOL, oh clayne...

You're very right, but don't worry about me! When I shoot I just shoot and when I develop I just develop...it'll all come into place slowly, I'm sure of it

@keithwms: Oh. I was looking for some sort of graph as I assumed that's what you meant by curve. LOL, but that second chart is what I need—thanks. In fact, exactly what I needed from the start. Covers all the New England room temperatures, year-round

 

[voretaq7]

Sprint has a table of suggested times on the bottle, but I'd avoid them as they get to be awfully generous and lead to contrasty negatives. It is better to call the developer D76/ID11 and use the recommendation packaged with the film, or the maker's website.​

Does anyone who work with Sprint know about/agree with that? It would definitely explain my own results anyway...

I would agree with that recommendation generally -- I think I mentioned a little while back I find the Sprint times to be a bit aggressive & the D76 times are a lot closer to what I use myself.

If you haven't already I would try the times from Kodak's D76 info sheet with your camera's default metering and see if the results are a little closer to what you expect. (Kodak's D76 info sheet http://www.kodak.com/global/en/professional/support/techPubs/j78/j78.pdf has a mini time-chart on page 3).
If you like the results you can pick a new chart letter with a more appropriate time as your starting point (I use "N" for 400TX if you want to try that), or just use the D76 times and not worry too much about it.

(Note correction in Bold above -- "minus one letter" from what the Sprint folks suggest, not "minus two letters"

 

[Christopher Walrath]

Welcome to APUG. I trust you have been inundated with oodles of great advice so I won't read through and offer anymore. Jason's videos are great. There are links to them here on APUG in the articles section. Lots of good information, including a good beginner's article for B&W darkroom, written by yours truly, here in the APUG articles as well.

 

[alphanikonrex]

I'll try N then tonight, voretaq7 and see how my results come out. So Sprint's suggested times are a little on the contrasty side...hmm

Thanks Chris, I'll have to check out the Articles section—I took a quick look and it looks like there's plenty of good material!

 

[alphanikonrex]

I just finished developing the roll, and I just had to say I'm much, much happier with how the images came out. I can see a new color in the negatives—gray!

 

[Ektagraphic]

With sprint developer I have used, all films were developed for 10 min. Worked well....

 

[alphanikonrex]

With sprint developer I have used, all films were developed for 10 min. Worked well....

Yes, but at what temperature?

 

[TheFlyingCamera]

Alpha- when in doubt, if temperature is not listed, assume 68 F for b/w developers.

 

[removed account4]

alphanikonrex,

you should bracket your exposures on your camera ...
1 whole stop over exposed, one stop as the meter says, 1 whole stop under exposed.
most of the internal meters on my 35mm cameras are about 1 stop off.
the times sprint gives are pretty accurate for the films and temperatures.

i'm not sure where in boston you are located, but you should see if you can get into a summer program
at the new england school of photography, or mass college of art, or the smfa / tufts
to see if they have a basic darkroom class that you can take with an instructor and real people
while it is "OK" to get advice and help at places like this, it is really hard to actually "see" and
know what is going on with your film and processing &C.

good luck !

john

 

[alphanikonrex]

So 68°F is like the "standard"? Thanks TheFlying Camera.

Yes John, getting into a summer course would be a good idea, but I don't know if I'll get a chance to. My family is leaving overseas for 4 weeks for vacation, and when I get back it'll be about time to get ready for school again. I really didn't plan for that, maybe I should have just signed up for a course to begin with!

Also, today I'm actually doing some good scans, so I'll hopefully have some examples of my work up later...

 

[keithwms]

Keep up the good work Alpha!

Just keep technicals in perspective. There are plenty of very successful [analogue] photographers who didn't or don't routinely concern themselves with dev'ing or printing. Not saying you should go that way, I am just saying, realize that the technical stuff can be ironed out very quickly and methodically, freeing you up to do the creative art.

 

[fschifano]

So 68°F is like the "standard"?

More or less, yes. 68F has been considered "normal" room temperature for many years, so it was convenient to settle on that temperature as a "standard" processing temperature. It's not written in stone, and you can run the process over a wide range of temperatures as long as you compensate for the accelerated or retarded reaction rate by adjusting the time.

Color processes (E-6 and C-41) run at 100F. Kodak recommends 75F for some B&W film/developer combos. I run all my B&W at 75F, because it's easier for me to keep that temperature all year round. 68F is too cool to maintain during summer months, but I can hold 75F all year with the addition of a smallish aquarium heater in my tempering bath.

 

[Sully75]

some things that were helpful to me
http://www.flickr.com/photos/analogian/49217703/
http://www.dantestella.com/technical/guerilla.html

Photo stuff is insanely expensive for even basic stuff. I had good luck with buying tanks and reels off ebay. They are pretty durable and generally in good condition when you get them. Also got some stuff here. You could put up a classified ad. Photo developing equipment loses 70% of its value when it leaves the store.

 

[voretaq7]

Yes John, getting into a summer course would be a good idea, but I don't know if I'll get a chance to. My family is leaving overseas for 4 weeks for vacation, and when I get back it'll be about time to get ready for school again. I really didn't plan for that, maybe I should have just signed up for a course to begin with!

Definitely bring your camera & film -- Depending on where you're going and what you like to shoot 1-2 rolls a week should be pretty do-able
If you can swing it & think you'll have an hour a week to do processing you may also want to bring your tank, developer concentrate and a half-liter of working-strength fixer.
Part of the beauty of B&W work is you can process film pretty much anywhere, and practice/experience are the best teachers you can ask for .

When you get back you may want to see if your school has a photography course (or club, or an old darkroom and a teacher with a soft spot for wet work) -- Most schools have at least one of those, and as others have mentioned you'll learn a lot more in person than you can pick up here.
Plus I'm firmly of the opinion that B&W processing should be a social experience.

 

[alphanikonrex]

Thanks Keith!

Thank you for the clarification on temperature Frank, now I know

I'll check those links out, Paul—thanks.

voretaq7—no way I'm not bringing the camera! For me the decision is how much film to bring—I know I'll definitely use it! I should probably order more as well pretty soon...

I'm still not so sure about bringing the chemistry though—that's taking on a lot more than I'd really want to deal with. I'd much rather happily expose my films and then develop them back at home.

And I'm certainly joining whatever photography/darkroom/etc. clubs at the high school. Something that I've never really been a part of—an actual photography club. Sociality is quite important!

Today I scanned a bunch of my images—I wish I had more to show you guys but most are of my family/friends!

 

[Ektagraphic]

Really nice images! Great work! You are pretty smart for being this good this quick. I like them....Be sure to bring more than enough film with you overseas. You never know if you will be able to get some when you get there. When I travel, I buy way too much but if it all doesn't get used, I have a good stash for a while once I get home.

 

[srs5694]

When travelling, be aware that airport x-ray machines can damage film. The machines they use for checked luggage are reportedly much worse on this score than the ones they use for carry-on baggage, so carry your film, and ideally ask for hand inspection (you might or might not get it) and/or put the film in a shielded bag.

I wouldn't dream of taking processing chemicals with me. Liquids are banned on many flights, and powders could easily raise all sorts of suspicions, too. If processing while travelling were really necessary, I'd figure out how to get the chemicals locally.