I'm a Street Photographer, Not a Pervert . . .

[Vilk]

... probably due to some fairly harsh editting by the mods

...they haven't kicked me off of RFF haha guess I'm not so bad

That place has taken on a carniverous feel I'm afraid to report.

well, they never kicked me out, i kicked myself out after a mod altered my (very civil) post a while ago due to an innocuous difference in personal opinion. i'm glad to see i'm not alone it's not the first forum i see being killed by mod arrogance

yay for apug!

 

[winger]

What an utter load of absolute tosh - and we wonder why so many women have image issues.

Since this thread has gone so far off track anyway, I might as well chip in a female opinion on this one. Image issues have way more causes than someone thinking that most larger people are the ones who don't want to be photographed. Try having models like those in the heroin-chic years (like Kate Moss in her early years), but the food pushed at us is more fat than food. There is a major obesity epidemic and yet there's a fight about too-thin models at the same time. How could this not cause many insecure women (and men) to not have a clue how to feel about their bodies. In the USA, women are frequently told to cover their boobs and not breastfeed in public (one of the most normal acts in the history of humans - duh, we're MAMMALS), yet there are ads for Abercrombie, etc.. with barely clad teenagers. There is such a disparity of how the body is presented in advertising and news that it's almost amazing that there are some people with a healthy attitude towards their bodies.
For what it's worth, I know very few people of any size who like to be photographed. There is a ring of truth to what Stone said and also an immaturity in how he said it. Maturity isn't just thinking a certain accepted way, it's really just acting like that's how you think.

 

[Ming Rider]

Since this thread has gone so far off track anyway, I might as well chip in a female opinion on this one. Image issues have way more causes than someone thinking that most larger people are the ones who don't want to be photographed. Try having models like those in the heroin-chic years (like Kate Moss in her early years), but the food pushed at us is more fat than food. There is a major obesity epidemic and yet there's a fight about too-thin models at the same time. How could this not cause many insecure women (and men) to not have a clue how to feel about their bodies. In the USA, women are frequently told to cover their boobs and not breastfeed in public (one of the most normal acts in the history of humans - duh, we're MAMMALS), yet there are ads for Abercrombie, etc.. with barely clad teenagers. There is such a disparity of how the body is presented in advertising and news that it's almost amazing that there are some people with a healthy attitude towards their bodies.
For what it's worth, I know very few people of any size who like to be photographed. There is a ring of truth to what Stone said and also an immaturity in how he said it. Maturity isn't just thinking a certain accepted way, it's really just acting like that's how you think.

I quite agree, though surely the onus is on the individual to think "I'm happy/not happy as I am," and not rely on the opinions of others or media opinion etc . . .?

Don't people have their own minds anymore?

"Maturity is acting like that's how you think." Stone must be mature then?

 

[StoneNYC]

Since this thread has gone so far off track anyway, I might as well chip in a female opinion on this one. Image issues have way more causes than someone thinking that most larger people are the ones who don't want to be photographed. Try having models like those in the heroin-chic years (like Kate Moss in her early years), but the food pushed at us is more fat than food. There is a major obesity epidemic and yet there's a fight about too-thin models at the same time. How could this not cause many insecure women (and men) to not have a clue how to feel about their bodies. In the USA, women are frequently told to cover their boobs and not breastfeed in public (one of the most normal acts in the history of humans - duh, we're MAMMALS), yet there are ads for Abercrombie, etc.. with barely clad teenagers. There is such a disparity of how the body is presented in advertising and news that it's almost amazing that there are some people with a healthy attitude towards their bodies.
For what it's worth, I know very few people of any size who like to be photographed. There is a ring of truth to what Stone said and also an immaturity in how he said it. Maturity isn't just thinking a certain accepted way, it's really just acting like that's how you think.

I totally agree about the breastfeeding comment, it really saddens me that mothers feel so much pressure from society to hide such a healthy and natural thing. I'm working with another photographer on a normalizing breastfeeding campaign. But it's in it's infant stage (no pun intended).

And yes I'm immature in my comments I'm sure there are certainly better ways to say things than I do. I just don't have much of a filter. I think if you all met me in person you'd see how my real personality and inflection in speech would change how I sound and I wouldn't seem like such a jerk.


~Stone | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[StoneNYC]

Don't people have their own minds anymore?

"Maturity is acting like that's how you think." Stone must be mature then?

:munch:



~Stone | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[winger]

I quite agree, though surely the onus is on the individual to think "I'm happy/not happy as I am," and not rely on the opinions of others or media opinion etc . . .?

Don't people have their own minds anymore?

"Maturity is acting like that's how you think." Stone must be mature then?

Maturity is acting like you think the "accepted" way when you really don't. Not sure all here have made it to that definition.

And I'm not too sure many people do have their own minds anymore. Since all of it is so pervasive, it's easy for it to edge its way into your thinking, even if you do usually think for yourself. I keep complaining about the couple of pounds I've gained in the last few years 'cause I think my belly looks fat and blobby. Yes, literally a couple of pounds. And I know it's somewhat ridiculous, but it still bothers me.

 

[winger]

I totally agree about the breastfeeding comment, it really saddens me that mothers feel so much pressure from society to hide such a healthy and natural thing. I'm working with another photographer on a normalizing breastfeeding campaign. But it's in it's infant stage (no pun intended).

And yes I'm immature in my comments I'm sure there are certainly better ways to say things than I do. I just don't have much of a filter. I think if you all met me in person you'd see how my real personality and inflection in speech would change how I sound and I wouldn't seem like such a jerk.


~Stone | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

Too bad you're starting the project now - I finally completely weaned my little guy (yes, folks, he's 3 - normal weaning age should be 3-4, not 1). He got nursed in public in so many places I lost track. Don't let me go off on this topic.

If you need help finding models, check with the LaLeche League or some attachment parenting groups in your area.

 

[Ming Rider]

Maturity is acting like you think the "accepted" way when you really don't. Not sure all here have made it to that definition.

And I'm not too sure many people do have their own minds anymore. Since all of it is so pervasive, it's easy for it to edge its way into your thinking, even if you do usually think for yourself. I keep complaining about the couple of pounds I've gained in the last few years 'cause I think my belly looks fat and blobby. Yes, literally a couple of pounds. And I know it's somewhat ridiculous, but it still bothers me.

There's nothing wrong with a little belly on a woman, but that's probably just me?

A couple are getting reasy for bed, the wife is looking in the mirror. She turns to her husband and says,

"My face is going wrinkly, my boobs are sagging and my bum is drooping, please tell me something to make me feel better."

He thinks for a bit, then says, "well there's nothing wrong with your eyesight ."

 

[StoneNYC]

Too bad you're starting the project now - I finally completely weaned my little guy (yes, folks, he's 3 - normal weaning age should be 3-4, not 1). He got nursed in public in so many places I lost track. Don't let me go off on this topic.

If you need help finding models, check with the LaLeche League or some attachment parenting groups in your area.

Oh no! Wish I had known I've been doing a separate project for a while now (which is how I got involved in this normalizing project because the artist saw my work and wanted to collaborate) which also incorporated breastfeeding in SOME of the images. So that's too bad.

Ahh well... You've already done so much for me, I'll PM you some exciting news


~Stone | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[pbromaghin]

In her 2012 TED talk, Cameron Russell (one of the most fabulously beautiful women on earth) said:

"The thing we will never say on camera, that I have never said on camera is that I am insecure. And I am insecure because I have to think about what I look like every day. If you're ever wondering if I have thinner thighs and shinier hair, will I be happier, you just need to meet a group of models because they have the thinnest thighs and the shiniest hair and the coolest clothes and they are the most physically insecure women, probably, on the planet".

In its entirety:

http://www.ted.com/talks/cameron_russell_looks_aren_t_everything_believe_me_i_m_a_model.html

 

[BrianShaw]

There's nothing wrong with a little belly on a woman, but that's probably just me?

You are not alone. What this indicates is a mature realization of what women (and men) REALLY look like. After about the age of 16 most women develop a womanly appearance. Same for men, except it is a more manly version of the same. Sure, there are some really bufff men and women... but look around and anyone can easily notice that they are a minority (except maybe if one is only looking in the gym).

I worked with a guy who was a 60 year old single virgin... because he retained his adolesent attraction for Kelly Bundy. He actually still lusted after that image. Poor boy, now he is approaching 70 and he is still lonely because he does not want to face the fact that Kelly also matured and looks womanly.

 

[Vilk]

Poor boy...

oi!

yearning after an ideal--personal and flawed though it might be--has yielded some fairly decent works of art in the past... i say, let 'im be

 

[StoneNYC]

In her 2012 TED talk, Cameron Russell (one of the most fabulously beautiful women on earth) said:

"The thing we will never say on camera, that I have never said on camera is that I am insecure. And I am insecure because I have to think about what I look like every day. If you're ever wondering if I have thinner thighs and shinier hair, will I be happier, you just need to meet a group of models because they have the thinnest thighs and the shiniest hair and the coolest clothes and they are the most physically insecure women, probably, on the planet".

In its entirety:

http://www.ted.com/talks/cameron_russell_looks_aren_t_everything_believe_me_i_m_a_model.html

I believe it, I didn't say I believed they weren't insecure, only that they were more accustomed to the attention.

Often beautiful women I've met also don't know it or need reassurance, not always, but often enough. I also know a few who don't care and those are the most beautiful because they have raw beauty.

I'm also insecure about my extra 5 lbs and my belly but when people hear that they mock me too because I see my potential and they see that I'm fit.

I'm sure we are all insecure about something.


~Stone | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[frank]

I'm insecure about those extra 40 pounds!

 

[BrianShaw]

I'm insecure about those extra 40 pounds!

Ya, who isn't?

 

[Sirius Glass]

That's our Stone. One day he will mature.

Don't count on it.

 

[Sirius Glass]

And here I was thinking your posts couldn't get any more sophomoric.

Now he has worked his way down to freshmanic.

 

[lxdude]

Just because you may have noticed certain behaviour in however many instances, doesn't mean it is correct.

It means it is correct in those instances.

 

[lxdude]

Now his friends are scrambling to redeem his honour and to dignify his comments.

Goes to show, people see what they want to see. Stone can tell you that I have gotten after him once or twice for something he said.

It wasn't a well-considered or well-structured comment, and its applicability to the situation described is questionable, but jeez. You're all in high dudgeon over this, wanting him to apologize to APUG and all women, when you cannot show that his comment is completely invalid. He was giving a statement based on his observation, generalizing in a way that may well not apply in the situation described. I understand your objecting to it, and consider your objection to have validity. But I object to your demanding a broad apology- it's better APUG be rough around the edges than become PC hell.

 

[lxdude]

There is a ring of truth to what Stone said and also an immaturity in how he said it.

I agree with Bethe's assessment.

I also think a person here should be able to receive an admonishment for an objectionable statement without having a label slapped on them. Criticizing his statement as misogynistic, OK, but I have heard many similar "misogynistic" statements coming from women. Calling him a misogynist, I don't agree with.

 

[viridari]

And let photography itself from past eras lend testimony that people in general have become slovenly in attire and appearance in latter years. As for me, I never cared for photographing nudity, never sought the opportunity to do it, and wouldn't if I could. The only bone I might pick with Stone would be the photography of tattoos. A girl with a tattoo is the best cure for a Viagra overdose that I can think of.

To be honest, I found this to be more bothersome than anything Stone said. Especially the bit about girls with tattoos. And yet as much as I disagree with it, here I am not being upset by it.

 

[StoneNYC]

Can't we all just get along!

I'm often light hearted, I've only once really gotten upset and that was a while back with a lot of fluff over the title of an image than of the image itself and my integrity and my respect for my models came into question and then I got all upset and made a whole thread on it, and then people gave me shit for being upset at the fact my integrity was called into question haha, there's a lot of this sort of holier than though attitude on this site (I just typed a bunch of stuff that would generalize and make other people upset "that's not me" stuff but basically...)because our art isn't often a shared creation but an individually created art form (for the most part) I think we as photographers see things how we want to see them, viewing the world through our own lens, never taking our head out from under the black sheet. So there's always going to be strong opinion. I'm not saying we aren't flexible, nor that we are single minded and will never grow, just saying we have a strong view and are often less flexible than others (case in point that many refuse to use digital and we are in a film forum, a medium that is seen by the collective greater part of the human race as a medium of the past) and so we tend to butt heads a lot because we are stubborn. Thank goodness we have a collective love of film to hold us together.

So I say again, can't we all just get along? Stay together for the film!


~Stone | Sent w/ iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[brucemuir]

Oh lord this is waaaay mild as internet "disagreement" threads go .

It speaks to the smaller closer community we enjoy here.

I relish reading the varying opinions.

 

[lxdude]

Instead of retorting, would it not have been better to show a level of humility - heck, even say "I'm Sorry"......

If someone called me a perv, there is no way I would reply "I'm Sorry". I mean- are you nuts? She would feel completely validated in her opinion and actions.

None of us are obligated to take verbal abuse from someone. We have the right to defend ourselves against such attacks. If you decide to do something else, fine, but don't go passing judgment on the person who isn't going to take that kind of crap. The woman was wrong in what she did. She is not entitled to get a pass on it.

 

[Ming Rider]

+1

I think in the scheme of things I did rather well.

The original post was condensed to prevent the reader from entering a coma but she must have said "I'm calling the police" at least 5 times. In the end, I was practically begging her to call the police.

There were at least 10 witnesses, all who would have easily heard her shout "is that how you get your thrills, photographing my children?"

At no point was I rude or offensive. I remained seated the whole time (my 6'1" frame would have probably intimidated her).

I didn't say sorry, as I felt I had nothing to apologise about.