Ilford XP2

Steve@f8 · Apr 19, 2021

Auer said:
Same as it does for color, more contrast and possibly blow out highlights.

Thanks

Auer · Apr 19, 2021

Steve@f8 said:
Thanks

@Donald Qualls can probably elaborate quite a bit more on the subject as he has (I think) done some more XP2 BBpass work.
I just developed my first roll of XP2 this way really.

RalphLambrecht · Apr 19, 2021

campy51 said:
I have a 20 year old roll of XP2 and would like to try it in a Kowa six that doesn't get used much if at all. I read somewhere that I should adjust 1 stop per decade. I also want to develop it with b&w Ilford Ilfosol 3 since it's the only developer I have.
Is it possible to use b&w chemistry and what do you recommend for film speed.

Yes, it can be developed in B&W chemistry.(seeattached)sorry;got a file too large error.

Raghu Kuvempunagar · Apr 19, 2021

There are some examples of bleach bypass processing of XP2 Super here.

dourbalistar · Apr 19, 2021

Raghu Kuvempunagar said:
Unfortunately, I've not had a chance to develop XP2 Super in HC-110. Maybe you can develop for 9-10 minutes @20C dilution 1+49 and see how it goes.

Thank you for the suggestion, I definitely need to do some more testing.

drmoss_ca said:
I use 6.5 to 7 minutes at 1+49. Doesn't seem to matter whether you use HC-110, Ilfotec HC or Legacy Pro 110. Same for 120 and 35mm.

Thank you, @drmoss_ca! I'll give that I try next time I test, probably with some fresh 135 so that I can bracket if necessary.

RalphLambrecht · Apr 19, 2021

bdial said:
There are some threads in here about processing XP2 in B&W chemistry. Apparently the method can yield good results. I’ve not tried it (yet) so I cannot confirm.

it can. google for:'Ilford XP2 in B&W chemistry' and You'll find a good article with numerous sample images.

Raghu Kuvempunagar · Apr 19, 2021

RalphLambrecht said:
it can. google for:'Ilford XP2 in B&W chemistry' and You'll find a good article with numerous sample images.

@RalphLambrecht : I think you're referring to this article by @drmoss_ca who shared some of his recent work (XP2 Super in Diafine) earlier in this thread. As you can see from the examples he shared, XP2 Super gives superb results in B&W chemistry. One has to give a stop more exposure than box speed to get best results.

Auer · Apr 20, 2021

Harsh mid day sun, stock speed, C41, Bleach Bypass.

Cold Turkey by Eric Auer, on Flickr

Raghu Kuvempunagar · Apr 20, 2021

Auer said:
Harsh mid day sun, stock speed, C41, Bleach Bypass.

Very interesting! I saw the higher resolution version on Flickr and was quite impressed. Slightly less exposure would have held details in the highlights, perhaps.

Donald Qualls · Apr 20, 2021

Raghu Kuvempunagar said:
Slightly less exposure would have held details in the highlights, perhaps.

Even in color, it's usually necessary to reduce exposure a little (i.e. expose at higher EI) when using bleach bypass, because of the density of the silver image. When I shoot XP2 Super for bleach bypass, I use EI 800, but I won't claim that's "right" -- I tend to use a higher EI than other folks for other films, too. EI 500-640 is probably a good compromise value if you meter the way most folks do.

Auer · Apr 20, 2021

Raghu Kuvempunagar said:
Very interesting! I saw the higher resolution version on Flickr and was quite impressed. Slightly less exposure would have held details in the highlights, perhaps.

I expected the highlights to blow, because bleach bypass. Predictable results.
I like the end result and will keep this in mind for the future.
Also, I did use a Filter, Hoya O [G].

Raghu Kuvempunagar · Apr 20, 2021

Donald Qualls said:
Even in color, it's usually necessary to reduce exposure a little (i.e. expose at higher EI) when using bleach bypass, because of the density of the silver image. When I shoot XP2 Super for bleach bypass, I use EI 800, but I won't claim that's "right" -- I tend to use a higher EI than other folks for other films, too. EI 500-640 is probably a good compromise value if you meter the way most folks do.

Interestingly, the recommended EI for normal C41 processing of XP2 Super is:
• For regular shooting in most normal lighting, use EI (ISO) 200.
• For shooting in extremely bright and/or contrasty lighting, like harsh full sun and shadows, use EI (ISO) 100. This insures adequate shadow detail, and the highlights won't block up.
• For shooting in low and low-contrast lighting—and this includes indoor shooting and "available darkness"—use EI (ISO) 400—or even a little higher, although I personally don't recommend ever going all the way to (gasp) 800.

If one were to bleach bypass these recommendations would not hold.

Auer · Apr 20, 2021

https://www.ilfordphoto.com/amfile/file/download/file/1909/product/703/

EXPOSURE RATING

XP2 SUPER film has a speed rating of ISO 400/27° (400ASA, 27DIN, EI 400/27) to daylight. The ISO speed rating was measured using standard C41 processing.
Although rated at ISO 400/27°, XP2 SUPER can be exposed over the range EI 50/18–800/30. When higher speed is needed, XP2 SUPER can be rated at up to EI 800/30.

For finer grain, when speed is less important, rate the film at EI 200/24, although for finest grain it can be rated as low as EI 50/18 if required. The practical implications of this wide exposure range are very important.
XP2 SUPER can be exposed at a setting to suit the job. The benefit of variable speed also provides security against inadvertent over- or underexposure.

It should be noted that the exposure index (EI) recommended for XP2 SUPER is based on a practical evaluation of film speed and is not based on foot speed, as is the ISO standard.

Donald Qualls · Apr 20, 2021

Raghu Kuvempunagar said:
Interestingly, the recommended EI for normal C41 processing of XP2 Super is:
• For regular shooting in most normal lighting, use EI (ISO) 200.
• For shooting in extremely bright and/or contrasty lighting, like harsh full sun and shadows, use EI (ISO) 100. This insures adequate shadow detail, and the highlights won't block up.
• For shooting in low and low-contrast lighting—and this includes indoor shooting and "available darkness"—use EI (ISO) 400—or even a little higher, although I personally don't recommend ever going all the way to (gasp) 800.

That's one longtime user's recommendation. We have a lot of users on here who recommend things like shooting Foma 400 at EI 100, too -- and the validity of that can be argued on various bases. For XP2 Super, however, the ISO testing procedure hasn't been stretched; C-41 process is standardized (unlike B&W silver image development) so if Ilford came up with ISO 400 we can trust that. XP2 Super is an ISO 400 film, short and sweet and simple, which tolerates very well being overexposed by up to three stops and underexposed by one without any change of process.

In B&W chemistry, you lose some speed because of the relatively low silver content of chromogenic films, hence the common recommendation to shoot at EI 200 if you'll be processing in HC-110, ID-11, or Df96 -- and if you bleach bypass, you gain density at all exposure levels because the silver image overlays the dye image, so you get a speed gain of 1/3 to 1 stop (depending how you meter and what your expectations are).

Old_Dick · Apr 20, 2021

I should of said Dr. Pippa

drmoss_ca said:
A fresh one today for you, Dick. XP2 in Diafine of course!

Raghu Kuvempunagar · Apr 20, 2021

Donald Qualls said:
That's one longtime user's recommendation.

And those recommendations work well in my own experience. Fact is if you do bleach bypass, these well honed recommendations don't hold anymore. Something people who want to dive into bleach bypass need to be aware of.

Auer · Apr 21, 2021

C41 | Bleach Bypass | ISO400 | Hoya O [G] filter

Street Fruit by Eric Auer, on Flickr

Auer · Apr 21, 2021

Raghu Kuvempunagar said:
And those recommendations work well in my own experience. Fact is if you do bleach bypass, these well honed recommendations don't hold anymore. Something people who want to dive into bleach bypass need to be aware of.

Honestly BB (Bleach Bypass) is dead simple and affordable.
The latitude of XP2 super makes BB easy and pretty forgiving it would seem.

You can get the Cinestill Cd41 dev and the F96 rapid fixer here in the U.S. for under $20.
As long as you can keep steady temps during development it's no big deal at all.

Donald Qualls · Apr 21, 2021

Black and white rapid fixer will work, too, and many/most of us already have it in our darkrooms. You do still want/need the C-41 final rinse, since the film will have dyes that could be subject to bacterial or fungal attack.

Auer · Apr 21, 2021

Donald Qualls said:
Black and white rapid fixer will work, too, and many/most of us already have it in our darkrooms. You do still want/need the C-41 final rinse, since the film will have dyes that could be subject to bacterial or fungal attack.

CS F96 is a B&W Rapid fixer. Best one I used so far with a good life span and indeed very rapid.
Its ammonium thiosulfate and should clear the dyes fully according to CS.

https://cinestillfilm.com/products/f96-bw-bleach-bypass-rapid-fixer

Raghu Kuvempunagar · Apr 21, 2021

Auer said:
You can get the Cinestill Cd41 dev and the F96 rapid fixer here in the U.S. for under $20.

Nice! Unfortunately, these kits aren't available to me here in India. Too expensive to get it shipped to India. I wish there were a color developer based on PPD which I can quite easily get locally, but CD3 and CD4 are not easy to get. So I'm kind of limited to developing XP2 Super in B&W chemistry. Fortunately, results have been quite good.

Raghu Kuvempunagar · Apr 22, 2021

Donald Qualls said:
In B&W chemistry, you lose some speed because of the relatively low silver content of chromogenic films,

This is not true, at least in my experience. I've developed several C41 films in B&W chemistry and also reversal processed them. There's no shortage of silver content in them. Slides have excellent DMax and negatives print well. The reason for speed loss is certainly not low silver content.

drmoss_ca · Apr 22, 2021

You're a brave man to argue with Mr Qualls! I don't know if the lower silver content is a problem, though, as long as there is enough to activate the dye (or does that activation require the C-41 developer?) I can get pleasing results at 1600 (HC-110 1+49—to make the math easier—for 18 mins):

but 3200 (same dilution for 24 minutes) is hit and miss. This one was a hit, but slight underexposure results in no usable image):

I have wondered whether what I was doing was really pushing or pulling the development with the varied times, or whether I was just being fooled by a tremendous latitude inherent in XP2. Perhaps it doesn't matter as long as it works!

BTW, on an unrelated topic, I have not had the chance to thank you, Donald, for the recipe for monobath. I had a lot of fun with it, though ultimately my lungs couldn't take the ammonia! So, thank you!

Donald Qualls · Apr 23, 2021

drmoss_ca said:
I have not had the chance to thank you, Donald, for the recipe for monobath. I had a lot of fun with it, though ultimately my lungs couldn't take the ammonia! So, thank you!

You're very welcome. You could just as easily eliminate the ammonia and use a different alkali to offset the acidity of the commercial rapid fixer, or use a neutral fixer or plain 60% ammonium thiosulfate solution in place of the rapid fixer concentrate and not need to do anything to support the pH. I used ammonia originally because I had it handy and HC-110 has enough anti-fog properties to prevent dichroic fog.

dourbalistar · Apr 25, 2021

Pentax 6x7, S-M-C Takumar 6x7 105mm f/2.4, Ilford XP2 Super (expired 2017), developed in LegacyPro L110 at 1:49 for 10 minutes.

2021.03.06 Roll #272-05980-Pano-positive.jpg by dourbalistar, on Flickr

Ilford XP2

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