Ilford Simplicity - new processing system from Ilford

[miha]

Looks like a glass bottle to me: https://www.photomemorabilia.co.uk/Paterson/Chemistry/tn_Acuspecial_FX-21.jpg

 

[AgX]

As I said glass bottles with caps are still used, but I meant something different.

 

[miha]

I see...you probably mean glass phials that had to be break open?

 

[AgX]

Yes, Tetenal used them for decades for some developers. Intended for single use.
The ultimate way of containing small volumes of developer concentrate.

 

[miha]

But then again Tetenal advise that in case only half of the Neofin bottle is used at once, the remaining volume should be filled up with water to the brim and closed tightly. This would not be possible without a screw-on cap.

 

[Ces1um]

What does recyclable means and to what extent such materials are practically recycled?
Re-moulding of plastics makes only a share within re-use of plastic waste.
Here in Germany since nearly 30 years we got a nationwide (finally consumer paid) recycling system for plastic packagings (as part of a general packaging recycling system) and 75% of this collected plastic waste is incinerated. And one can argue over the use of the rest too.
So here the term recycling more and more gets substituted by exploitation.
Furtheremore, seen the sheer amount of packaging used for prepacked foodstuff likely we all consume daily, the ecological foot print so to say of these sachets intended to be used rarely should be negligable.

Why do you incinerate your plastics that are collected for recycling? In the province that I live in, here in Canada, we've been recycling for about 20 years. That being said, we recycle what we collect- well, we sent it to china for recycling up until recently (Jan 2018). There was a huge news story here when we had to send 12 tractor trailer loads to the dump instead of having it recycled. It didn't take long to get that issue sorted out. Why do you put up with incineration when it was supposed to be recycled? You would think the German people would take steps against this. Rather than being exploited you should do something about it. Talk to your politicians.

 

[AgX]

As said this sort of nationwide "recycling" started in Gerrmany as early as about 30 years ago and in the beginning indeed part of the plastic was sent abroad.

But the issue remains:
-) first dividing the waste in sorts as dividing an aluminium cap from a plastic beaker or even splitting multilayer laminates as european milk boxes or that Ilford sachet, what is really hard
-) getting rid of any foodstuff, cosmetics, chemicals clinging to the packaging
-) then making something useful from the gained sorts.
Often such recycled plastic is of such low grade that only very primitive products can be made out of it,meaning that after one cycle the material may be at its end, recyclingwise.

Germans were said to sort waste as crazy in comparisons to their neighbours, though they are having installed similar systems by now. But why then should anyone investigate? Having things sorted out literally, yields a good consciance ecologywise, better not to know the truth...

I advise to investigate what actually is behind your "recycling in China", what sort of material they get out of the canadian waste, at what percentage, what they do with recuperated pure materials, what with the remains.

Just recently a study showed that a lot of trickery was done at the german recycling/exploiting industry to yield good ratios of sorted against produced packagings. They went so far as to establish a "death-quota", meaning they claimed that any packed foodstuff bought by a person before his death would after his death be sorted out as generic waste, the respective packaging thus principally would not reach the recycling/exploiting industry, thus can be subtracted from the sum to be recycled/exploited.
You see at what level they calculate!


Part of the problem is the complicated packaging, in comparison to decades ago. For instance in comparison to the GDR, which had much earlier a recycling system.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Ansco used small "vials" for small liquid volumes in their kits.

PE

 

[Photo Engineer]

Sealed glass containers for delivery are called ampoules.

PE

 

[AgX]

Ansco used small "vials" for small liquid volumes in their kits.

Sealed glass containers for delivery are called ampoules.

Thank you, both for hinting at Ansco and for correcting my wording.
Yes, vial is the english word for the german Phiole. (And fiool in Dutch. Constantly busy in three laguages I tend to mix up things)

But vial actually is a tiny bottle with a cap, though not a screw-cap.
I meant an ampoule.

Actually for the same developer, Neofin, over the years Tetenal used all three: an ampoule, a vial and now a bottle.

Here a photo of some old packagings from three german manufacturers, including a vial and ampoules:
https://www.filmvorfuehrer.de/uploads/gallery/album_240/gallery_79259_240_427706.jpg
(colour marked necks of ampoules can be broken without scratching them in advance)


By the way, the correct term for the Ilford sachets is spout-pouch.

 

[kevs]

I am sure there is someone somewhere that will try and reuse the chemicals, load two film back to back on a single reel, use ju-ju and the casting of chicken bones in the light of a full moon, but I think Ilford is onto a good thing.

I would. Both the stop and fix would happily process more than two films; even the dev would be fine with 25% replenishment or an increase in developing time, providing it is stored in an airtight container. No chicken bones or moonlight required.

I've loaded two 120 films on a single spiral; it's certainly doable (you load the first normally then the second) but the risk of overlap and kinking makes it not worth the bother, IMO.

 

[pbromaghin]

Why do you incinerate your plastics that are collected for recycling? In the province that I live in, here in Canada, we've been recycling for about 20 years. That being said, we recycle what we collect- well, we sent it to china for recycling up until recently (Jan 2018).

They are burning it because it is often difficult to separate out the various types of material and what comes in is often dirty and cannot be properly processed. And the same has been happening with much of what we've been sending to China, where a large part of it ends up being burned or dumped into landfills. China has recently tightened up the rules of what they will accept and this is had large ripple effects throughout the material chain. Read up on it. As someone who has been recycling for decades, it's fairly disheartening to learn I've been believing a lie.

 

[pbromaghin]

I would. Both the stop and fix would happily process more than two films; even the dev would be fine with 25% replenishment or an increase in developing time, providing it is stored in an airtight container. No chicken bones or moonlight required.

I've loaded two 120 films on a single spiral; it's certainly doable (you load the first normally then the second) but the risk of overlap and kinking makes it not worth the bother, IMO.

If you leave the tape on the end of the first one and use it to hold onto the 2nd, it prevents the overlap and makes it easier to feed. That being said, I'm not always able to do it successfully and end up doing single rolls.

 

[MattKing]

I've been successfully loading two 120 films on to a single reel for years. I use the AP reels that are designed to fit in Paterson tanks.
The only time I had problems with overlap were when I tried to use rotary agitation for the development stage.
I do use rotary agitation for the 3 minute pre-soak, the stop, the fixer and the HCA, but I use inversion agitation for the development. My guess is that film is slipperiest in the developer.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Ansco vials were rubber capped similar to those used in medical situations for injections. The needle is stuck through the cap without removing it. In this case, the cap is removed for use of the entire vial.

PE

 

[miha]

Interesting that Neofin COLOR was once in TT's portfolio: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TETENAL-...ER-FOR-COLOR-NEGATIVE-FILM-3011-/292722801204

 

[Agulliver]

Recycling.....I remember being told circa 1987 that Germany was way ahead of Britain in this regard. I was told about how German households had two or three rubbish bins, in which different materials were discarded so that they could be recycled more easily. This was totally unknown in Britain until around a decade later. But....while we have this now it varies from area to area. And there's no doubt that much actually goes to the far East where we often cannot be sure what happens to it. A report last year followed the trail of several shipments and found that some was indeed recycled, some just left out in a "recycling centre" for years and some was incinerated. There are very few facilities for actually recycling waste in the UK. We Brits tend to view Germans as more environmentally conscious than we are, with things like recycling and general tidyness being better there. Having only visited Germany once, way back in 1987, I can only say that what I saw then backed up that view...but things could have changed?

As for the Ilford kit, it looks really good for beginners. I can see someone who's a bit of a "nervous newbie" buying this kit to process their first roll or two....trying it two or three times before deciding if home processing is something they wish to continue. It also might be good for people on the move who wish to process on their travels...and for those who only process films very occasionally.

 

[AgX]

Having only visited Germany once, way back in 1987, I can only say that what I saw then backed up that view...but things could have changed?

We meanwhile have 14 different heaps/containers at home to sort stuff in. I think that still is quite a number.
As hinted at above, to give us a good conscience...

 

[Arklatexian]

1. One could no help but notice that they actually measured the surfactant!!! The squirters and the drippers are going to go bonkers!
2. The kit contains stop bath, there will be a lot of crying in beer from the anti stop bathers.
3. It is virtually fool proof, but someone who thinks they know better will experiment and fill the website with "why didn't it work?!?"
4. It is virtually fool proof but some others will find a way.

Would like to buy one (or more) to give to my granddaughter for Christmas. B&H has them but won't ship them. I don't see them at Freestyle. Should I give Amazon a try? Don't tell me to buy from my local dealer. Digital did away with the three camera stores we had here years ago. Looks like a great idea. Sort of like the kits Kodak sold over fifty years ago called, if my memory is correct, "tri-paks". Sirius, you are correct. There ain't no such thing as "fool proof". Human nature will always find a way, usually to save money.......Regards!

 

[wyofilm]

They look like a good idea but if they can't be purchased ... Don't see a listing on Adorama, eBay, or Amazon.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Would like to buy one (or more) to give to my granddaughter for Christmas. B&H has them but won't ship them. I don't see them at Freestyle. Should I give Amazon a try? Don't tell me to buy from my local dealer. Digital did away with the three camera stores we had here years ago. Looks like a great idea. Sort of like the kits Kodak sold over fifty years ago called, if my memory is correct, "tri-paks". Sirius, you are correct. There ain't no such thing as "fool proof". Human nature will always find a way, usually to save money.......Regards!

Drive out to New York which will take two or three days, have a few beers, buy a case of them, then drive to your granddaughter and spend winter break with her teaching her photography and film development. Now no excuses, you are retired and have the time to do that. If not now, when?

 

[cmacd123]

Many of us older folks got our start in the darkroom with the "Kodak Tri-chem pack." a small box with foil envelopes of enough developer, stop bath and fixer to do one roll of film, or a few 2x3 inch prints.

Just checking the Ilford site, they are announcing they have a series of SIMPLICITY chemicals. Flex bottles of Developer (Ilfosol 3), stop, and fix, as well as wetting agent.

each bottle has enough liquid to make 600ml of solution which happens to be the capacity of a Patterson Tank.

I would imagine that this would lower the barrier for a first time user.

they have a video at ILFORD SIMPLICITY Film Processing Photo Chemicals - YouTube

 

[AgX]

2 weeks ago already a thread on this started:

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/ilford-simplicity-new-processing-system-from-ilford.163968/

 

[AgX]

That Kodak Tri-Chem kit never made it to over here.
To my understanding the sachets contained solids, not liquids.

The first to introduce spout-bags, and than even laminated ones, were Maco.

 

[Ces1um]

Many of us older folks got our start in the darkroom with the "Kodak Tri-chem pack." a small box with foil envelopes of enough developer, stop bath and fixer to do one roll of film, or a few 2x3 inch prints.

Just checking the Ilford site, they are announcing they have a series of SIMPLICITY chemicals. Flex bottles of Developer (Ilfosol 3), stop, and fix, as well as wetting agent.

each bottle has enough liquid to make 600ml of solution which happens to be the capacity of a Patterson Tank.

I would imagine that this would lower the barrier for a first time user.

they have a video at ILFORD SIMPLICITY Film Processing Photo Chemicals - YouTube

I'll save you from having to read the older thread on this exact topic. Everybody is angry because it's more plastic in landfills. The people that said hopefully they are recyclable were told that recycling is a lie and it only ends up getting burned anyways. Some people were happy that it included both a stop bath and a wetting agent. There, you're all caught up.