If Kodak whithers our TMX's... Will it be "Hello Delta!" ?

[DREW WILEY]

I well remember when we were all in a panic and started hoarding Ilford film because everyone assumed they were going under. The more players, the better at this point.

 

[NJH]

As far as I can tell, much of the world requires that private, limited liability corporations disclose publicly important financial and structural information.
The US and Canada seem to be major exceptions.
The rationale for this being that the availability of information helps offset the dangers of limited liability to those who consider trading with those corporations, and in particular those who consider entering into complex contracts with them.

This 1000x. Its basic due diligence really when dealing with any company to understand for example how much cash they declared last time round, do they have a fighting fund or are they hanging on by a thread making no profit with nothing in reserve. Admittedly we have a fairly risk adverse approach here compared to the other side of the Atlantic but it can't be nice to end up being left high and dry by an insolvent company you rely on.

The only part of UK practice I have never agreed with is disclosure of Managing Director addresses/contact details. Nobody surely needs that information apart from the authorities.

 

[Sirius Glass]

I have used Hp5+ quite a lot during the last years and even if it is not the finest grained ISO 400 film,
I have come to realy like it. Am I doing something wrong or is it that my replenished Xtol developer can
pick the best out of any film ? I have a feeling that it is the later statement. My dear three gallon jar of Xtol,
whose origin goes way back in history, keeps serving me in an excelent way. I keep it cool , dark and tightly
caped and once in a while I pat the jar and speaks friendly to it. It makes wonders with any film !

Karl-Gustaf

If you prefer traditional grain then HP5+ with replenished XTOL gives great fine grain. I am very happy with traditional grain and replenished XTOL. Nothing wrong with tabular grain, I just do not like it as much, although for long lenses and nature photography I use Delta 3200. My preference is Tri-X, then HP5+ and then Delta 3200.

 

[macfred]

@macfred ... very lovely images!

Thank you, Andrew !

 

[Sal Santamaura]

...Can you state what value Alaris has to the readership here if it is not selling Eastman Kodak film?

You seem to have missed the point. In terms of the worldwide market for photographic film, APUG/PHOTRIO readers are an insignificant blip. It's easy to get wrapped up in one's / a group's self importance. The Walmart approach, i.e. selling unimaginable volumes of crap to the masses at low prices, some of it carrying brand names of long-defunct companies, is viable. Sad, but true.

 

[Sal Santamaura]

...I don't want a substitute product under that label...

I don't either, but neither of us is much of a contributor to Eastman Kodak's bottom line. We both have freezers full of the stuff and aren't buying much today. Even if we did at our previous rates, our purchases would still be noise level compared to what the rest of the world buys. Face it, if Bldg. 38's line is dismantled like the others in Rochester were, Alaris might source film elsewhere and we'd need to test it in comparison with different brands' offerings to determine whether we're interested.

 

[RattyMouse]

You seem to have missed the point. In terms of the worldwide market for photographic film, APUG/PHOTRIO readers are an insignificant blip. It's easy to get wrapped up in one's / a group's self importance. The Walmart approach, i.e. selling unimaginable volumes of crap to the masses at low prices, some of it carrying brand names of long-defunct companies, is viable. Sad, but true.

In the past year or so I have seen 35mm film disappear almost completely from consumer stores in. I used to be able to pick up some Superia if I wanted to from various big box stores but that seems to a thing of the past. I have not heard of any person I know, either in my extended family or co-workers on the job ever mention that they shot any images on film. Certainly every single C41 lab I have known in the past has disappeared. All the chain stores that developed film for consumers is gone. I know one place locally that does color film and it's strictly for hobbyists, at $10/roll. If the U of M were not close by, I'm sure this lab would close down too.

I think the APUG user base, while small, greatly reflects the users of film in today's market.

 

[RattyMouse]

I don't either, but neither of us is much of a contributor to Eastman Kodak's bottom line. We both have freezers full of the stuff and aren't buying much today. Even if we did at our previous rates, our purchases would still be noise level compared to what the rest of the world buys. Face it, if Bldg. 38's line is dismantled like the others in Rochester were, Alaris might source film elsewhere and we'd need to test it in comparison with different brands' offerings to determine whether we're interested.

By the way, I agree that Alaris might re-brand Fuji's film if Kodak goes under. My point was that no serious film aficionado will care about such "Kodak" film when that happens.

 

[DREW WILEY]

What Fuji films??? Most of them have already disappeared : most of their color chrome selection - certainly the best of it, virtually all color neg except the amateur stuff, and now even b&w sheet film. Kodak itself is doing way better than that.

 

[Sirius Glass]

What Fuji films??? Most of them have already disappeared : most of their color chrome selection - certainly the best of it, virtually all color neg except the amateur stuff, and now even b&w sheet film. Kodak itself is doing way better than that.

In spite of all the problems, Kodak just keeps on going. The same can not be said for Fuji.

 

[Sal Santamaura]

By the way, I agree that Alaris might re-brand Fuji's film if Kodak goes under...

I made no prognostication that Fuji might be an Alaris supplier in the event Eastman Kodak shuts down Bldg. 38. If need be, and if permitted by its agreement with Eastman Kodak, Alaris might source film from any film manufacturer, or even a coating entity not currently manufacturing film.

...My point was that no serious film aficionado will care about such "Kodak" film when that happens.

And my point was that Kodak Alaris' market, not to mention the entire film industry's market, is such that 'serious film aficionados' are not significant players in it.

 

[RattyMouse]

I made no prognostication that Fuji might be an Alaris supplier in the event Eastman Kodak shuts down Bldg. 38. If need be, and if permitted by its agreement with Eastman Kodak, Alaris might source film from any film manufacturer, or even a coating entity not currently manufacturing film.

Fuji was just one example that *I* gave. It doesnt matter if it's Fuji, Ilford, Agfa, or Ma and Pa's Discount Coaters, no one that matters will care, IMO, about such Kodak branded film. Hollywood will just go all digital and enthusiasts will find other substitutes.

And my point was that Kodak Alaris' market, not to mention the entire film industry's market, is such that 'serious film aficionados' are not significant players in it.

Film is not even a primary product for Kodak Alaris. None of it is significant to their long term future. Paper and office products pay their bills.

 

[Alex400]

Personally, the only film I find so exceptional I couldn't live without is Kodak TriX. I have made several presets to go from HP5, Tmax and Acros to Trix's tone distribution but the prints just don't match up to Trix level.

Instinct tells me we will have Trix for a long time. Should it get discontinued, I would not hesitate spending $100K on film and dedicated storage units. That should be enough to serve me and my friends to the end of our days.

 

[Pioneer]

Personally, the only film I find so exceptional I couldn't live without is Kodak TriX. I have made several presets to go from HP5, Tmax and Acros to Trix's tone distribution but the prints just don't match up to Trix level.

Instinct tells me we will have Trix for a long time. Should it get discontinued, I would not hesitate spending $100K on film and dedicated storage units. That should be enough to serve me and my friends to the end of our days.

Assuming of course that you get your order submitted before a lot of other people on the planet.

 

[Alex400]

... and maybe one day we will shoot the last Trix roll from the factory:

 

[Pioneer]

Kodachrome was something I missed. It most certainly was available when I started shooting film I just never tried it.

However, nice as it may have been, the fact that Kodak could so easily discontinue Kodachrome, does not give me much hope that TriX would be any different if the time comes that they decide it isn't worth making any longer.

 

[John Wiegerink]

Kodachrome was something I missed. It most certainly was available when I started shooting film I just never tried it.

However, nice as it may have been, the fact that Kodak could so easily discontinue Kodachrome, does not give me much hope that TriX would be any different if the time comes that they decide it isn't worth making any longer.

I think Kodak had another reason to drop Kodachrome other than the lack of demand or sales. I believe I read that the processing of Kodachrome generated a large amount of "possibly" toxic waste. Of course in this day and age it cost money to get rid of said waste. Beside, they figured their other slide films filled the bill.

 

[RattyMouse]

Kodachrome was something I missed. It most certainly was available when I started shooting film I just never tried it.

However, nice as it may have been, the fact that Kodak could so easily discontinue Kodachrome, does not give me much hope that TriX would be any different if the time comes that they decide it isn't worth making any longer.

Heck, that Kodak could discontinue ALL of E6 shows that any film is not safe if it doesnt make its numbers. The same goes with Fuji too. Those two are simply too large to care about film. Ilford is the only company properly sized for today's market. Ferrania will be too if they can get off the ground and start making film.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Kodachrome was something I missed. It most certainly was available when I started shooting film I just never tried it.

However, nice as it may have been, the fact that Kodak could so easily discontinue Kodachrome, does not give me much hope that TriX would be any different if the time comes that they decide it isn't worth making any longer.

I tried it extensively. On long exposures it went green. I got to dislike the gray that it added to clear skies. The grayness was eventually addressed but I had adopted Ektachrome and Ektachrome T as my mainstays.

 

[Minoltafan2904]

I don't think Kodak is going to discontinue T-Max, not long ago they announced they have apparently fixed once and for all the backing paper issues on 120, they have spent quite a lot of time and money on solving those issues and T-Max is available in 120 now again.
I also don't believe the rest of the fearmongering that Kodak is going to go under and stop making film...

Kodak Alaris has reported seeing a 5% / year growth of film sales over the last years, Kodak is again facing some economic issues but that is not due to the film part of the business, it's their printers and phones that are causing them the losses.

It seems there are certain people on this forum that just love to spread fearmongering and apocalyptic scenarios, i really don't get it...

 

[RattyMouse]

It seems there are certain people on this forum that just love to spread fearmongering and apocalyptic scenarios, i really don't get it...

Some people wish to discuss the film industry, in a film forum. There are tangible facts, repeat, facts about Kodak that are true and easily verified.

* Kodak was downgraded by at least two investor analysts who directly mentioned the possibly of a second "restructuring" bankruptcy.
* Kodak's stock price is down a whopping 80% this year.
* Kodak lost money the last quarter.
* Kodak's film & consumer division went from profitable to losing money last quarter.
* Kodak's cash on hand dropped almost 10% (in a single quarter!).

You don't see an existential threat here? Really?

 

[NJH]

I hate to say it but I agree, it would be different if the company was privately owned by a person/persons interested in our analog world, but with its financial situation and share price on such a low ebb any number of negative things could happen.

We had a scandal here in recent years about RBS intentionally crashing its customers in-order to asset strip them (absurdly high land/property values in the UK). What didn't make the papers was that it was very common for banks to seemingly randomly decide that a business would have its over-draught facility withdrawn if the manager felt it was always going into a regular short term debt cycle they didn't like. I know of a fair few family owned businesses that went bust like that, businesses that had been around for generations and where still viable but with no warning or discussion over-draught taken away. Its properly scary how fast it can happen, viable business to bust within weeks. Maybe its just my own paranoia but I would keep a careful eye on their cash position going forward (if you can access reliable figures).

 

[David Luttmann]

Kodachrome was something I missed. It most certainly was available when I started shooting film I just never tried it.

However, nice as it may have been, the fact that Kodak could so easily discontinue Kodachrome, does not give me much hope that TriX would be any different if the time comes that they decide it isn't worth making any longer.

My guess, os that the last roll lf film ever produced by Kodak...will be TriX.

 

[Sirius Glass]

My guess, os that the last roll lf film ever produced by Kodak...will be TriX.

I agree that your are probably correct.

 

[RattyMouse]

My guess, os that the last roll lf film ever produced by Kodak...will be TriX.

Kodak will outlast Ilford? Please explain.