If Kodak whithers our TMX's... Will it be "Hello Delta!" ?

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by JWMster, Dec 13, 2017.

  1. RattyMouse

    RattyMouse Member

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    I dont think this is true at all. TMAX100 went down for over a year and Ilford kept supply easily. If Eastman crashes how can the coating machines keep going? That defies the very definition of a crash.
     
  2. DREW WILEY

    DREW WILEY Member

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    I well remember when we were all in a panic and started hoarding Ilford film because everyone assumed they were going under. The more players, the better at this point.
     
  3. NJH

    NJH Member

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    This 1000x. Its basic due diligence really when dealing with any company to understand for example how much cash they declared last time round, do they have a fighting fund or are they hanging on by a thread making no profit with nothing in reserve. Admittedly we have a fairly risk adverse approach here compared to the other side of the Atlantic but it can't be nice to end up being left high and dry by an insolvent company you rely on.

    The only part of UK practice I have never agreed with is disclosure of Managing Director addresses/contact details. Nobody surely needs that information apart from the authorities.
     
  4. If you prefer traditional grain then HP5+ with replenished XTOL gives great fine grain. I am very happy with traditional grain and replenished XTOL. Nothing wrong with tabular grain, I just do not like it as much, although for long lenses and nature photography I use Delta 3200. My preference is Tri-X, then HP5+ and then Delta 3200.
     
  5. macfred

    macfred Subscriber

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    Thank you, Andrew !
     
  6. Sal Santamaura

    Sal Santamaura Member

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    You seem to have missed the point. :smile: In terms of the worldwide market for photographic film, APUG/PHOTRIO readers are an insignificant blip. It's easy to get wrapped up in one's / a group's self importance. The Walmart approach, i.e. selling unimaginable volumes of crap to the masses at low prices, some of it carrying brand names of long-defunct companies, is viable. Sad, but true.
     
  7. Sal Santamaura

    Sal Santamaura Member

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    I don't either, but neither of us is much of a contributor to Eastman Kodak's bottom line. We both have freezers full of the stuff and aren't buying much today. Even if we did at our previous rates, our purchases would still be noise level compared to what the rest of the world buys. Face it, if Bldg. 38's line is dismantled like the others in Rochester were, Alaris might source film elsewhere and we'd need to test it in comparison with different brands' offerings to determine whether we're interested.
     
  8. RattyMouse

    RattyMouse Member

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    In the past year or so I have seen 35mm film disappear almost completely from consumer stores in. I used to be able to pick up some Superia if I wanted to from various big box stores but that seems to a thing of the past. I have not heard of any person I know, either in my extended family or co-workers on the job ever mention that they shot any images on film. Certainly every single C41 lab I have known in the past has disappeared. All the chain stores that developed film for consumers is gone. I know one place locally that does color film and it's strictly for hobbyists, at $10/roll. If the U of M were not close by, I'm sure this lab would close down too.

    I think the APUG user base, while small, greatly reflects the users of film in today's market.
     
  9. RattyMouse

    RattyMouse Member

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    By the way, I agree that Alaris might re-brand Fuji's film if Kodak goes under. My point was that no serious film aficionado will care about such "Kodak" film when that happens.
     
  10. DREW WILEY

    DREW WILEY Member

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    What Fuji films??? Most of them have already disappeared : most of their color chrome selection - certainly the best of it, virtually all color neg except the amateur stuff, and now even b&w sheet film. Kodak itself is doing way better than that.
     
  11. In spite of all the problems, Kodak just keeps on going. The same can not be said for Fuji.
     
  12. Sal Santamaura

    Sal Santamaura Member

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    I made no prognostication that Fuji might be an Alaris supplier in the event Eastman Kodak shuts down Bldg. 38. If need be, and if permitted by its agreement with Eastman Kodak, Alaris might source film from any film manufacturer, or even a coating entity not currently manufacturing film.
    And my point was that Kodak Alaris' market, not to mention the entire film industry's market, is such that 'serious film aficionados' are not significant players in it.
     
  13. RattyMouse

    RattyMouse Member

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    Fuji was just one example that *I* gave. It doesnt matter if it's Fuji, Ilford, Agfa, or Ma and Pa's Discount Coaters, no one that matters will care, IMO, about such Kodak branded film. Hollywood will just go all digital and enthusiasts will find other substitutes.
    Film is not even a primary product for Kodak Alaris. None of it is significant to their long term future. Paper and office products pay their bills.
     
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  15. Alex400

    Alex400 Member

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    Personally, the only film I find so exceptional I couldn't live without is Kodak TriX. I have made several presets to go from HP5, Tmax and Acros to Trix's tone distribution but the prints just don't match up to Trix level.

    Instinct tells me we will have Trix for a long time. Should it get discontinued, I would not hesitate spending $100K on film and dedicated storage units. That should be enough to serve me and my friends to the end of our days.
     
  16. Pioneer

    Pioneer Subscriber

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    Assuming of course that you get your order submitted before a lot of other people on the planet. :D
     
  17. Alex400

    Alex400 Member

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    ... and maybe one day we will shoot the last Trix roll from the factory:

     
  18. Pioneer

    Pioneer Subscriber

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    Kodachrome was something I missed. It most certainly was available when I started shooting film I just never tried it.

    However, nice as it may have been, the fact that Kodak could so easily discontinue Kodachrome, does not give me much hope that TriX would be any different if the time comes that they decide it isn't worth making any longer.
     
  19. John Wiegerink

    John Wiegerink Subscriber

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    I think Kodak had another reason to drop Kodachrome other than the lack of demand or sales. I believe I read that the processing of Kodachrome generated a large amount of "possibly" toxic waste. Of course in this day and age it cost money to get rid of said waste. Beside, they figured their other slide films filled the bill.
     
  20. RattyMouse

    RattyMouse Member

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    Heck, that Kodak could discontinue ALL of E6 shows that any film is not safe if it doesnt make its numbers. The same goes with Fuji too. Those two are simply too large to care about film. Ilford is the only company properly sized for today's market. Ferrania will be too if they can get off the ground and start making film.
     
  21. I tried it extensively. On long exposures it went green. I got to dislike the gray that it added to clear skies. The grayness was eventually addressed but I had adopted Ektachrome and Ektachrome T as my mainstays.
     
  22. Minoltafan2904

    Minoltafan2904 Member

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    I don't think Kodak is going to discontinue T-Max, not long ago they announced they have apparently fixed once and for all the backing paper issues on 120, they have spent quite a lot of time and money on solving those issues and T-Max is available in 120 now again.
    I also don't believe the rest of the fearmongering that Kodak is going to go under and stop making film...

    Kodak Alaris has reported seeing a 5% / year growth of film sales over the last years, Kodak is again facing some economic issues but that is not due to the film part of the business, it's their printers and phones that are causing them the losses.

    It seems there are certain people on this forum that just love to spread fearmongering and apocalyptic scenarios, i really don't get it...
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2017
  23. RattyMouse

    RattyMouse Member

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    Some people wish to discuss the film industry, in a film forum. There are tangible facts, repeat, facts about Kodak that are true and easily verified.

    * Kodak was downgraded by at least two investor analysts who directly mentioned the possibly of a second "restructuring" bankruptcy.
    * Kodak's stock price is down a whopping 80% this year.
    * Kodak lost money the last quarter.
    * Kodak's film & consumer division went from profitable to losing money last quarter.
    * Kodak's cash on hand dropped almost 10% (in a single quarter!).

    You don't see an existential threat here? Really?
     
  24. NJH

    NJH Member

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    I hate to say it but I agree, it would be different if the company was privately owned by a person/persons interested in our analog world, but with its financial situation and share price on such a low ebb any number of negative things could happen.

    We had a scandal here in recent years about RBS intentionally crashing its customers in-order to asset strip them (absurdly high land/property values in the UK). What didn't make the papers was that it was very common for banks to seemingly randomly decide that a business would have its over-draught facility withdrawn if the manager felt it was always going into a regular short term debt cycle they didn't like. I know of a fair few family owned businesses that went bust like that, businesses that had been around for generations and where still viable but with no warning or discussion over-draught taken away. Its properly scary how fast it can happen, viable business to bust within weeks. Maybe its just my own paranoia but I would keep a careful eye on their cash position going forward (if you can access reliable figures).
     
  25. David Luttmann

    David Luttmann Member

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    My guess, os that the last roll lf film ever produced by Kodak...will be TriX.
     
  26. I agree that your are probably correct.