How's AdoXTOL coming along, Team Adox?

[ADOX Fotoimpex]

A dedicated replenisher would be okay, but not nearly as useful and attractive as being able to use the developer as its own replenisher.
I still have some HC-110 replenisher, and its use is complex and relatively difficult.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I expect ADOX would be happy if Sino Promise fixed all the problems and got back into the market with reliable Kodak branded black and white photo chemicals.

Matt, I was never opportunistic about ADOX or FOTOIMPEX. I dedicated my life to saving analog and most competitors struggled and failed so I took on one challenge after the other to back up. But yes, I welcome any participant and I do not want to be the only kid in the sandbox cuz this is lonely and boring. Mirko

 

[ADOX Fotoimpex]

As you are here now anyway, will you be selling Photoklasik II.2021?

That's actually the reason I haven't placed my order this week.

Ernst, you overrate my level of informations ;-) I know we will but I can´t tell you why we might not today ;-)

 

[m00dawg]

Ofcourse. XTOL is very well balanced developer for any B/W emulsion.

Of note I soup CHS ii and HR50 in Kodak XTOL and get lovely results! Especially the CHS ii (in both 4x5 and 35mm). In HR50 I got some weird speed loss (but maybe that's due to the stock being tainted...really hard to tell since that batch was part of the recall, as it turns out).

EDIT: I should say, I mentioned this due to the question about how Adox's new developer would perform with sheets and such. Based on my experience with XTOL and Adox's hard work on the new dev, I would expect it will perform very well!

 

[Sirius Glass]

Self-replenishment is by far and away the biggest reason I have moved to X-Tol. It is also probably the biggest reason that commercial users choose X-Tol.

I have used replenished XTOL for over a decade because the results are better and the cost saving is a nice bonus.

 

[m00dawg]

I have used replenished XTOL for over a decade because the results are better and the cost saving is a nice bonus.

I had to measure some one-shot today and just realized I'm not sure I accounted for how many sheets I'm developing. Whereas with XTOL I just dump whatever of replenishment in the beaker and just go (I usually try to get to 500ml and I'm usually close). I love that! I know some find replenishment less dependable but I find it more since it can act as a buffer for mistakes made though I think both viewpoints are valid depending on how you look at it. And doing it this way means I don't waste any chemistry and don't have to worry about min chemistry amounts. This is mostly for sheets but yeah I really like the approach and it's worked well for me for 2 years.

 

[Auer]

Very much looking forward to this, one shot.

 

[Donald Qualls]

Where/how can I learn about how self-replenishment works in dumbed-down terms that I can understand? I get the concept, but don’t understand the application.

Simple version: a self-replenishing developer is one where you replenish by just adding more developer, vs. having a different solution that is added to replenish the developer.

Xtol is the only large-market self-replenishing developer I've been able to find -- except imitators/work-alikes (EcoPro and Fomadon Excel, Mytol if your chemicals and water are trace-level free of iron and copper, and potentially the new Adox XT). It's also the only B&W replenishment system, other than Ilford DD (not DD-X) that can be run indefinitely; Champion Chemical makes or made a self-replenishing developer, but I'm not sure it's still available and it may have been identical to DD. Every other replenishment system I'm aware of (common ones are D-76 and D-76R, D-23 and DK-25R, and HC-110 and HC-110R, the latter replenisher out of production for some years) is limited in working life; once you're added replenisher about equal in volume to the original stock solution, pH gets out of range, activity changes, bromide build-up causes issues -- in the end, you have to toss out the tank solution and start over. Self-replenishing developers don't do this.

BTW, C-41 color developers are self-replenishing, at least the non-kit versions (they use a starter to avoid "seasoning" as is done with Xtol, but after the starter is used to make the tank solution, replenishment can run on for many years even at hundreds of rolls a day; Flexicolor is the one I've used, but the Fuji Hunt mini-lab developer is as well). This is a very important quality for commercial lab, because a limited replenishment life adds up to quality control problems, which cost much more than just starting with a fresh mix every so often.

 

[urnem57]

Interesting. I need to look at the poop sheet for Xtol then. Will I find the dilution ratios there? How does it affect developing time, or am I essentially working with fresh developer since it’s been replenished? All these decades of film developing and I have never done this. This must mean I have probably poured a used car’s value worth of perfectly good developer down the drain. Is replenished developer similar to working with different Rodinal dilutions? There’s still so much me to learn. More than a few lifetimes worth when it comes to the breadth and depth of areas there are to explore in photography.

 

[Donald Qualls]

Interesting. I need to look at the poop sheet for Xtol then. Will I find the dilution ratios there? How does it affect developing time, or am I essentially working with fresh developer since it’s been replenished? All these decades of film developing and I have never done this. This must mean I have probably poured a used car’s value worth of perfectly good developer down the drain. Is replenished developer similar to working with different Rodinal dilutions? There’s still so much me to learn. More than a few lifetimes worth when it comes to the breadth and depth of areas there are to explore in photography.

Xtol used with replenishment is undiluted: stock solution, mixed to envelope directions, is used both for tank solution and for replenisher. Recommendation is 70 ml replenishment per 8x10 equivalent (= 1x120 or 1x135-36), and you can adjust this figure if you find your activity level drifting toward higher or lower contrast; add the measured replenisher to the tank solution bottle, then discard any solution from the development tank beyond what's needed to refill the bottle. Some claim to need to adjust development time as the tank solution seasons (takes about six rolls with normal replenishment to reach a steady state), but I've been using the stock solution times for films I've processed. YMMV, I suspect it depends on how much you lower your personal EI below box speed (I don't), possibly also how tightly you monitor your negatives (i'm on the loose side there).

In general, I only put about 65 ml of developer down the drain for each roll (the missing 5ml gets carried over into the stop bath, and a little of that carries over into the fixer, so the fixer tends to expand slowly). I started this in part because I'm cheap, and in part because I have a sheet film tank that wants 55 ounces (~1.6L) to cover 4x5 -- but with replenishment, four 4x5 sheets still only consume 70ml of developer, as replenisher. If I were using Xtol at the otherwise recommended 1+1, I'd be dumping a minimum (for 35mm or double-loaded 120) of about 125-150 ml of stock solution per roll, and potentially as much as 800 ml to do one or more 4x5 in my Agitank (which would have me using something else for 4x5 -- homemade Parodinal, most likely).

You can, if you choose, still use diluted Xtol, just dilute some of the replenisher for your one-shot process and discard it when you're done. IMO, there's not generally any reason to want to do this, though.

Presuming XT works enough like Xtol, this should work the same with with that (it is known to do so with EcoPro and Fomadon Excel, and with Mytol if your chemicals are free enough of iron and copper).

 

[MattKing]

T-Max RS as well, but only in 25 litre packages now.

 

[urnem57]

This is good to know. I develop 6 4x5 sheets per run in a Paterson Tank w/a 20th Century Camera Reel. The tank holds around 1 liter, which means roughly 3 1-shot runs per gallon. It was getting expensive, so I switched to Rodinal diluted 1:50, Eco Pro, and Legacy Pro once I experienced Xtol failure. The 2 ascorbic acid developers were a few $ cheaper per bag then Xtol.

 

[m00dawg]

That's what is great about replenishment. If you dev less than 6 sheets in your tank, you don't waste the chems as you can pour most of it back. This was a game changer for me when I moved to Xtol-R. Less so with a rotary process, but you still waste chems this way. It can really add up when you're only doing 1 or 2 sheets (as I would do when doing film tests and the like). There's opinions on both sides, some loud So definitely do some of your own research to decide if it's worth it for you. For me, I love it. I'll miss not having a good replenishment setup but for now I'll be happy knowing I can get something close to Xtol - perhaps something even superior!

 

[urnem57]

I’m sure the Adox brew will be good. German Precision is quite impressive.

 

[Donald Qualls]

I switched to Rodinal diluted 1:50, Eco Pro, and Legacy Pro once I experienced Xtol failure. The 2 ascorbic acid developers were a few $ cheaper per bag then Xtol.

There's only one ascorbate based developer in that list: EcoPro. LegacyPro is a clone of D-76, just as ID-11 is. And EcoPro and LegacyPro now cost about the same as their Kodak prototypes.

That's what is great about replenishment. If you dev less than 6 sheets in your tank, you don't waste the chems as you can pour most of it back.

Actually, even if you're running a tank at capacity (like me processing four rolls of 120 in a liter of solution in a three-reel Paterson), replenishment has lower consumption than one-shot. For this example (4 rolls), I replace 280 ml of developer, which is about half what I'd use diluting 1+1, a little less even than 1+2. And I don't risk unevenness or inconsistency like I would with similar consumption at 1+3 (due to being below recommended minimum stock per roll), because I'm developing in stock strength developer!

For another example, let's say I get another Grafmatic and have a good day; come back with twelve sheets of 4x5 (a full load for my Agitank). I need 3 x 70ml = 210 ml of replenisher -- or, at 1+2, I'd need in excess of 500 ml (and this is running the tank at capacity, never mind if I only have two sheets to run, for which this tank needs the same volume).

 

[Ernst-Jan]

I received an e-mail a few minutes ago

Folgende Artikel haben wir für Sie zur Lieferung erfasst:
[…]
Wird bestellt: 1 Stück ADOX XT-III Developer zum Ansatz von 1000 ml
Einzelpreis: 5,03 EUR | Gesamt: 5,03 EUR.

For those who don't speak German: a package of Adox XT is on its way to me!

 

[m00dawg]

I received an e-mail a few minutes ago


For those who don't speak German: a package of Adox XT is on its way to me!

Oh awesome! It looks like they shipped mine too, but I'm in the US so I would guess you might get yours before I do. Excited to hear the results folks end up getting!

 

[Ernst-Jan]

Oh awesome! It looks like they shipped mine too, but I'm in the US so I would guess you might get yours before I do. Excited to hear the results folks end up getting!

Hehehe shipping to the USA might take a bit longer indeed. Usually it takes 4 days to get delivered. You will be happy if it's 4 weeks I guess

 

[mshchem]

I can order a used camera from Japan, ship by DHL and receive it in 3 days. Using the semi private US Postal Service, if I would mail myself a package, it would take a week to get back to me . Maybe a little less. In the US FedEx is the only really reliable service.
When I was a kid The Post Office was the most reliable part of the government. That all changed when USPS was formed.

 

[mshchem]

Matt, I was never opportunistic about ADOX or FOTOIMPEX. I dedicated my life to saving analog and most competitors struggled and failed so I took on one challenge after the other to back up. But yes, I welcome any participant and I do not want to be the only kid in the sandbox cuz this is lonely and boring. Mirko

I want to know if this gets a Porsche 911 Turbo for the company car. I seem to remember several years back, Adox showed illustrations of the new building, there was an outline of a 911 for scale.
Best Regards Mike

 

[radiant]

I received an e-mail a few minutes ago

Did you backorder it? It seems to be out of stock, still.

 

[Ernst-Jan]

Did you backorder it? It seems to be out of stock, still.

I placed an order on Monday. The stock information might not be up to date on the website? Mirko wrote here shipping would start end of this week.

 

[s_wittmann]

Where/how can I learn about how self-replenishment works in dumbed-down terms that I can understand? I get the concept, but don’t understand the application.

urnem57, you already received some good answers. When I started with XTOL-R over 2 years ago, I found this thread to be very helpful:

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/using-and-replenishing-xtol.144796/

 

[urnem57]

thanks!

 

[ltbphoto]

Any sense of when we might see this available in the US (e.g. Freestyle)?

 

[toyoboyo]

This is what I got from Freestyle yesterday when asking:

And we are going to be carrying ADOX XT developer, but it is currently out of stock with our vendor and no ETA is available at this time. We do have ECOPRO developer in stock, which is also an ascorbic acid film developer: