How to get big grain

[Helge]

Did anyone mention half frame?
Delta 3200 @ 3200 in D76 stock slightly overcooked will give you real grain.

 

[radiant]

Did anyone mention half frame?

How does half frame increase grain?

 

[foc]

How does half frame increase grain?

Because it is a smaller negative area and so has to be enlarged more.
For example a 35mm (image area 24x36mm) negative enlarged to 20x30cm (8x12 inches) is a magnification of 8.3.
A half frame negative (image area 18x24mm) enlarged to 20x30cm (8x12 inches) is a magnification of 12 (approx as there would be some cropping of the image) but you can get the idea.
The bigger the magnification the more it will show grain.

 

[Bill Burk]

I think getting grain like the image on the right from 1879 would be a fun project. Trying to achieve this with a large format negative would make it more interesting.

 

[Sirius Glass]

How does half frame increase grain?

The photograph covers half the area and for the same final print the grain is larger. I ended up using slower film to get an acceptable grain size when I use my Tessina.

 

[eurekaiv]

I've shot a couple rolls of Delta 400 recently, pushed to 3200 in L110 1:15 13.5' @68 and the pics are very grainy but it's a relatively smooth looking grain with nice gradations and not at all clumpy or visually distracting. Was the OP ever clear about what "big grain" meant to them?

 

[Huss]

How does half frame increase grain?

I just step back double the distance to my subject.

 

[Huss]

Did anyone mention half frame?
Delta 3200 @ 3200 in D76 stock slightly overcooked will give you real grain.

Just waiting for someone to mention 110...

 

[Huss]

 

[Patrick Robert James]

Jeez Huss, what is with that large format stuff? I mean you have to lug that huge 110 camera around all day? Who has the energy for that? Plus you get all that fine grain. I prefer a more hand holdable camera like the Minox.

Fomapan 400/Rodinal in a Minox and printed with a Minox enlarger.

 

[Patrick Robert James]

Seriously though, half frame is the easiest way to increase grain. I reckon a half frame neg is about the same-ish grainwise as the older films, but you take a bit of a hit on tonality. This is from a Oly Pen FT with Fomapan 400 in Rodinal and printed. It isn't really even that grainy in half frame.

 

[Huss]

Jeez Huss, what is with that large format stuff? I mean you have to lug that huge 110 camera around all day? Who has the energy for that? Plus you get all that fine grain. I prefer a more hand holdable camera like the Minox.

Fomapan 400/Rodinal in a Minox and printed with a Minox enlarger.

View attachment 302787

Excellent!

 

[Minolta93]

Hello all,

For some photos I really like the appearance of expressive ,big coarse grain.
So I like to ask all of you how to get it.
I shoot Black and white. And use Rodinal as film developer.
Thx

I took some bird photos on Arista 400 in 35mm with an 85mm lens. It wasn't nearly long enough so if I cropped my scans to just the bird it was very grainy. I used Rodinal. I don't have the scans with me right now.

 

[jnamia]

The suggestion to use print developer to get big grain is a bit wrong, contrast yes, grain no. I have been using print developers ( GAF Universal first in the 90s, then Ansco/Photography130(when a friend suggested it was GAF Universal) and D72+Dektol when I couldn't afford the glycin) none really give large grain, they actually are capable of producing pretty fine grained sharp negatives. Smaller than 4x5 might run a bit contrasty if yo aren't careful so if you use these do a test roll to determine your agitation scheme so you don't get extra contrast when you don't want it.

Jeez Huss, what is with that large format stuff? I mean you have to lug that huge 110 camera around all day? Who has the energy for that? Plus you get all that fine grain. I prefer a more hand holdable camera like the Minox.

Fomapan 400/Rodinal in a Minox and printed with a Minox enlarger.

View attachment 302787

that's nice grain!

 

[radiant]

The suggestion to use print developer to get big grain is a bit wrong, contrast yes, grain no.

I have the opposite experiences.. This is HP5 developed in paper developer and printed in darkroom, the grain you see here is very real (18x24cm print scanned at 600dpi) :

 

[jnamia]

radiant, that looks great ! what kind of print developer was it ? and what temperature did you use it ? I like grain.

 

[radiant]

radiant, that looks great ! what kind of print developer was it ? and what temperature did you use it ? I like grain.

Thanks! That is Ilford paper developer at 20degC.

The strange is that sometimes the frames get really really nasty (in a good way) with paper developer but then I have almost "perfect" print made from same batch (AND underexposed) without excessive grain. It feels like it has its own mind.

 

[Craig75]

I think it might depend on the paper developer.

I used a bottle of champion (I think?) Universal print and paper developer and it gave me sharp clean negatives (which wasn't what I was wanting).

Radiant's example using a dedicated multigrade developer is very different from my experience with a universal developer.

Something to play around with there

 

[markjwyatt]

Hi Sirius,
It's a personal quest , to find ways to produce large coarse grain in my prints. You should see at the work of Michael Ackerman.

Michael Ackerman's grainy Tram (cannot embed because it is not an "approved" site)

Wayback Machine

My Hp5+ smooth grain Tram

Street Car by Mark Wyatt, on Flickr

 

[Steve@f8]

Jeez Huss, what is with that large format stuff? I mean you have to lug that huge 110 camera around all day? Who has the energy for that? Plus you get all that fine grain. I prefer a more hand holdable camera like the Minox.

Fomapan 400/Rodinal in a Minox and printed with a Minox enlarger.

View attachment 302787

Grain lovers delight, fabulous!
I still get this nagging thought of getting a Minox ‘Spy Camera’, but worry getting film could be difficult. I’ve heard of people cutting regular 35mm etc. Then there’s the need for a special development tank.

 

[Patrick Robert James]

Grain lovers delight, fabulous!
I still get this nagging thought of getting a Minox ‘Spy Camera’, but worry getting film could be difficult. I’ve heard of people cutting regular 35mm etc. Then there’s the need for a special development tank.

You can buy film slitters. They aren't that expensive. The best one costs around $200 but you can get them for maybe $60 or so. I just made one myself. You do need special reels but I made some out of a few Unicolor 35mm reels I had laying around. Just cut them and glued them. Pretty simple. I do have a Nikkor steel reel but I prefer the plastic ones I made. Easier to use. You don't need a special tank. I do have a Minox tank but I've never used it either. Too much hassle I think. Better to just make a couple reels and use whatever tank you already have. You can also fix out a roll of film and then just tape the roll of Minox film to the back of it and develop it on a 35mm reel. That is pretty simple to do. No modifications necessary for that.

The cameras are easy to find these days and they don't cost much.

If you think you'd have fun with it, go for it. Life is short.

 

[Steve@f8]

You can buy film slitters. They aren't that expensive. The best one costs around $200 but you can get them for maybe $60 or so. I just made one myself. You do need special reels but I made some out of a few Unicolor 35mm reels I had laying around. Just cut them and glued them. Pretty simple. I do have a Nikkor steel reel but I prefer the plastic ones I made. Easier to use. You don't need a special tank. I do have a Minox tank but I've never used it either. Too much hassle I think. Better to just make a couple reels and use whatever tank you already have. You can also fix out a roll of film and then just tape the roll of Minox film to the back of it and develop it on a 35mm reel. That is pretty simple to do. No modifications necessary for that.

The cameras are easy to find these days and they don't cost much.

If you think you'd have fun with it, go for it. Life is short.

Thank you. Everything I need to know there. Cheers.

 

[braxus]

The old Bergger 200 and Forte 400 had large grain. Those films were very old fashioned looking. Forte 400 was said to look like what Tri-X used to look like many years ago.

Today, I'd say Foma 400 in 35mm is your best bet.

 

[Patrick Robert James]

Forte 400 was the last really grainy old type film. Good stuff. I found it too late though. Haven't seen any now for years.

 

[radiant]

Today, I'd say Foma 400 in 35mm is your best bet.

I continue my crusade on debunking that myth:

My Fomapan 400 is broken

As member of Grain Lovers Inc. I tried to go on crusade to search for the "huge" grain from Fomapan 400. I've tried evertyhing from underexposing and overdeveloping. I mean heavy overdevelopment. I've tried overexposing. I've been using Rodinal 1+25. I've agitated "like crazy" (30sec...

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