How to emulate wet collodion with normal 35mm equipment?

darkosaric · Aug 3, 2019

I was thinking to coat glass with Tetenal liquid emulsion, and develop it as a print. I am not interested so much in grain less results of the wet collodion, but more in this...how to say..."through the glass" look.

Maybe some other ideas? To print negatives through some filter, or something?

Thanks,

AgX · Aug 3, 2019

As you do not want to expose your emulsion to the subject but to a negative instead, you must filter the taking film to simulate the spectral sensitivity of the collodium plate.
Thus you must start already at the taking. (Unless you take on colour film, which would allow to postpone filtration to the darkroom phase.)

removed account4 · Aug 3, 2019

hi darko
are you interested in making a paper print of your image or have the image on the glass ?
there's a couple of different ways you could do this depending on if you are hoping to enlarge the image
or expose it on something the same size as the finished print and contact print it.

if you hope to expose regular film and enlarge onto the glass, i think ilford still sells ortho film
or you can figure out what kind of filter you want to use ( https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/ortho-not-pan-film.71898/ ) ...
you can coat a sheet of plexi with urethand and print through it or you can coat it with urethane and coat IT with emulsion
and put it against your film gate and expose it or .. print your ortho / ortho response negative on it .. or do the same thing with glass ( printing ON it )... you can ALSO
print your negative on a larger piece of paper and contact print it onto a inernegative and contact print that,
sounds kind of tedius and complicated but its not really
have fun!

john

darkosaric · Aug 4, 2019

I have couple of rolls of Efke 25, that is also ortho film. I was planning to enlarge it on the glass or plexi.

Bill Burk · Aug 4, 2019

What if you mix some fix into a thickener, paint around the edges of some sheet film that’s been exposed but not developed yet... let it ooze around a bit at random... maybe spritz some fix to create droplet defects. Then wash and develop the film normally.

Nodda Duma · Aug 4, 2019

I make dry plates sized for 35mm. The ASA 2 emulsion has the same spectral sensitivity as wet plate but as a dry medium is much more convenient / practical for what you are trying to do. Prints come out looking similar to wet plate results, and careful toning gets you the rest of the way there.

So you’re on the right track, except know that Tetenal, Liquid Light, etc are, in my experience, a real pain to work with — even after I’ve gotten really good with coating plates — and you may spend more time learning to coat vs actually taking pictures.

J 3 · Aug 6, 2019

Glass plate collodian negatives get their classic look from a couple things. The most important is the lack of any red light sensitivity and very little green. This can be reproduced with a strong blue filter or with orthochrome film.

A second feature of the effect is hallation. Since 35mm is enlarged where as glass plates were typically shot at size the effect is well approximated by photographic with film that lacks an anti halation layer. The film photography project sells some respooled film stocks that lack anti-halation. I believe (don't quote me) the Cinistill B&W film lacks anti-halation as well.

Third effect is the high contrast and lack of grain which can be handed in the choice of film, in development, or in the handling of the film post developement.

The 4th effect are all the defects (potentially) in a hand poured emulation (developement lines, bubbles, emulsion ripples, etc). I'm not sure how one would duplicate these without actually using colodian media.

J 3 · Aug 6, 2019

P.S. liquid light will emulate some of these effects well, but gelatin emulsions do not flow over a plate like colodian ones do. If the aim is to emulate the look of a wetplate with lots of emulsion defects than its probably best to do dryplate colodian (very slow) or real wet plate. If the goal is to look like a pristine wet plate than liquid light might be an excellent route.

J 3 · Aug 6, 2019

By dryplate collodian I mean the colodian emulsions listed in old texts like The Silver Sunbeam, not the gelatin dryplate emulsion like what Rockland puts out in their tintype kits.

J 3 · Aug 6, 2019

Sorry for spamming the thread. Another part of the look comes from the lenses and slow shutter speeds. So look for fast normal lenses with shallow depths of field. Some of them had field curvature which gave those swirly backgrounds. Slow shutters gave stiff poses and occational motion blur.

AgX · Aug 6, 2019

J 3 said:
A second feature of the effect is hallation. Since 35mm is enlarged where as glass plates were typically shot at size the effect is well approximated by photographic with film that lacks an anti halation layer. The film photography project sells some respooled film stocks that lack anti-halation. I believe (don't quote me) the Cinistill B&W film lacks anti-halation as well.

I did not think of halation... do not use glass plates. However any halation effect is much stronger on glass plates than on film, as it is base-thickness dependant.

AgX · Aug 6, 2019

J 3 said:
Sorry for spamming the thread. Another part of the look comes from the lenses and slow shutter speeds. So look for fast normal lenses with shallow depths of field. Some of them had field curvature which gave those swirly backgrounds. Slow shutters gave stiff poses and occational motion blur.

Thus a Helios 44 (under resp. circumstances) and a stack of ND filters, I guess.

(By the way, I once had a daguerreotype portrait taken of mine. Free standing, and no stiff pose... just don't do as the portraitist says...

J 3 · Aug 6, 2019

I believe Film Photogr

AgX said:
I did not think of halation... do not use glass plates. However any halation effect is much stronger on glass plates than on film, as it is base-thickness dependant.

It's thickness dependent but it's also magnification dependant. A glass plate is about 1.3mm thick but it's contact printed at 1:1 magnification. 35mm film is thinner but magnified more to get to the same print size. I Saw some night time shots on Cinistill 800T that look a lot like full plate dryplate in terms of halation. The effect is subtle unless strong lights / contrast exist in the image.

J 3 · Aug 6, 2019

Another tell on these old images is vignetting in the corners. If your lens doesn't do this you can fake it by using a lens hood designed for a longer lens or by doing some dodging/burning in the darkroom.

removed account4 · Aug 6, 2019

if the OP takes the photograph and filters the 35mm film
and prints it onto silver gelatin a glass plate or plastic and
through a glass plate or plastic that celophane on it it will look similar to a collodion plate
not really hard to do... i have images like this somewhere in my hard drive but were printed on paper
was fun and easy ... better than cellophane ( food service film ) if darko can get urethane or even collodion or clear nail polish ( pretty much is collodion ) from a pharmacy
he could pour a plate to print through instead of just distressed cellophane..

darkosaric · Aug 7, 2019

I have some Polypan F film, it has no halo on it. I will try with Polypan F and blue filter.

Thank you all for the tips so far !

pwitkop · Oct 11, 2019

If you're still interested, since I came across this post fairly late, I'd try using a UV pass filter with a modern film. It's a 'black glass' type filter that blocks visible light and allows UV to pass. The name brand filters are very expensive but I remember seeing some cheap import ones on ebay that wanted to try and haven't gotten around to. When I did this in school years ago (when I could borrow the expensive filter) I remember it having a similar look. I think I used t-max for it back then because the filter slows the exposure way down (I want to say it was something like 4-6 stops depending on the light, but my memory is aweful) and the reciprocity characteristics were good. A dark blue filter might get you something closer to that look too and would be easier with an slr.

NB23 · Oct 11, 2019

Tiffen 47 blue filter. Total wet plate look.
You lose only 3 Stops

darkosaric · Oct 13, 2019

Thanks for the filter tips, I have some additional blue filters somewhere, need to check which ones. I did tried Ortopan film, but the look is still not like wet plate. I still need to try printing through the glass painted with transparent nail polish.

NB23 · Oct 13, 2019

darkosaric said:
Thanks for the filter tips, I have some additional blue filters somewhere, need to check which ones. I did tried Ortopan film, but the look is still not like wet plate. I still need to try printing through the glass painted with transparent nail polish.

The glass + nail polish sounds like a marvelous idea.

The Tiffen 47 filter is not a regular blue. It is almost opaque.

radiant · Oct 19, 2019

I will try this also! So in summary:

- Use dark blue filter
- Mix fix to thickener and paint the borders with brush
- Use filter with vignetting
- Expose paper through glass plate with sellofane or nail polish

This sounds so exiting, I need to visit local supermarket for the supplies

Ray Morgenweck · Oct 19, 2019

Use a 35mm camera specifically designed for Wet Plate!!

removedacct1 · Oct 19, 2019

Ray Morgenweck said:
Use a 35mm camera specifically designed for Wet Plate!!

I've used a damaged Kodak Retina I* to make tintypes in, and it works very well! It would be easy to make collodion negatives as well, if you use an appropriately thin glass. No special equipment required.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/47754396612_da9e8d7be0_b.jpg

*some missing pieces, and the rear door catches on the body where its been dropped. Otherwise a functional camera.

removed account4 · Oct 19, 2019

hi darko
i use a pentax k1000 for dry plate metal images
it WILL work for wet plate too, but im not breathing ether yet

darkosaric · Dec 30, 2019

So finally I did some tests.

Efke KB25 (Ortho film), with blue filter:

Printing through the glass + nail polish:

How to emulate wet collodion with normal 35mm equipment?

Privacy & Transparency

Privacy & Transparency