Home Chemistry Storage Confusion

[fschifano]

The vast majority of people won't EVER have a problem because of this. You know, some idiot who would drink from an unlabeled bottle of unknown contents would probably do it no matter what kind of bottle it is. No one can make anything 100% idiot proof. If there are small children around, then it is incumbent upon the owner to secure ANYTHING that may be dangerous. The most "correct" and properly labeled bottle will not prevent an accidental poisoning in that case. So your arguments do not make any sense. It's not a nightmare, and these PET and PETE bottles make very good chemical storage bottles. They are light weight, air tight, and have excellent closures. They won't shatter into a thousand sharp little shards if dropped, making them safer than glass. IMO, any extremely minor gas permeability issues are overwhelmed by that safety factor alone. Bonus? They can be had for NOTHING. When the closures get a little worn, chuck 'em into the recycling bin. The specialty bottles you pointed to earlier are HDPE, which doesn't offer the same resistance to gas permeability as the PET and PETE bottles. They are EXACTLY the same kind of bottles used for drugstore hydrogen peroxide and isopropyl alcohol. There is absolutely nothing special about them save the "photo grade" labeling. PET and PETE plastic takes magic marker (Sharpie) ink very well and it doesn't wear off either. Label them properly, don't store your photo chemistry near food items, and there is no issue with anyone who can read. For the illiterate, well what can you do other than restrict access to them which is what you should be doing anyway?

 

[fotch]

tkamiya, you just blew your secret (top secret vacuum chamber) .

Yeah, I can see its probably minimal worry. I had read a post about how to recant C41 chemical, like the Photographers' Formulary is doing, and that it is necessary to use a special chamber filled with nitrogen. Of course, in that case, its for resale and must stay factory fresh until sold.

Anyway, the way you and others are recanting into smaller bottles, probably has no measurable effect. However, to each their own. I still like just going right away to the smaller bottles and not having to do anything but use it up. Besides, I have lots and lots of these bottles now.

 

[RalphLambrecht]

The vast majority of people won't EVER have a problem because of this. You know, some idiot who would drink from an unlabeled bottle of unknown contents would probably do it no matter what kind of bottle it is. No one can make anything 100% idiot proof. ...

You are right, 100% idiot proof cannot be done, but that's not the point. The point is to do whatever one can to make it as safe as possible within reason. Food containers have a higher probability of being confused with food containers than chemical containers, and it is within reason to avoid them. Labels help, but one can do better.

As far as 'some idiot' goes, you are talking to one. A while back, I was dumb enough to use a regular water glass for a bit of paint thinner while painting a larger area. Once the brush got a bit tacky, I cleaned it in there and continued to paint. It took about two hours, and too many fumes, and I took the glass to drink from it. It wasn't a pleasant experience, and I'm not proud of it, but I doubt it would have happened with the appropriate container.

It was an accident. The risk was minimal, but I could have minimized even further, and that's what this is all about. We are not talking about a perfect world or alert and sane behaviour. We are talking about being safe (or as safe as possible) even when our guard is down or our mind somewhere else.

 

[tkamiya]

Ralph,

ewwwwwwwwwwww..................

 

[MattKing]

At the risk of appearing to argue both sides of the question, I just had to link to this thread:

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

And I'd like to nominate MurrayMinchin's post (#5) in that thread for the "Funniest Post in APUG" award:

(there was a url link here which no longer exists)

(NB. the humour will only be apparent to those who watch TV from the USA).

 

[AgX]

An idea I think worth considering as alternative to those glsas lab bottles with that plastic coating one could apply adhesive foil to the major faces of ones preferred glass lab bottles. Not as effective but most probably would reduce the impact of spread bottle content in case of fall.

 

[fotch]

What amazes me is how clumsy everyone is. So far, Reinhold and myself have not broken any bottles in 40 plus years!

Ralph, I did something similar but less dangerous once, took a sip of day old coffee rather than the one that was fresh. Yuk!

Accidents are always a surprise, can surprise anyone, anytime, and that's why they them accidents.

 

[Sirius Glass]

You are right, 100% idiot proof cannot be done, but that's not the point. The point is to do whatever one can to make it as safe as possible within reason. Food containers have a higher probability of being confused with food containers than chemical containers, and it is within reason to avoid them. Labels help, but one can do better.

As far as 'some idiot' goes, you are talking to one. A while back, I was dumb enough to use a regular water glass for a bit of paint thinner while painting a larger area. Once the brush got a bit tacky, I cleaned it in there and continued to paint. It took about two hours, and too many fumes, and I took the glass to drink from it. It wasn't a pleasant experience, and I'm not proud of it, but I doubt it would have happened with the appropriate container.

It was an accident. The risk was minimal, but I could have minimized even further, and that's what this is all about. We are not talking about a perfect world or alert and sane behaviour. We are talking about being safe (or as safe as possible) even when our guard is down or our mind somewhere else.

Remember Campers: Do not try this at home!

 

[tkamiya]

Is this a confession thread now?

Long time ago, I was eating Sukiyaki. (you know what it is, right?) In traditional form, raw egg is used as a dipping sauce. I mistakenly cracked my egg into an empty tea cup. I thought, oh well, and poured tea into an egg cup.

Guess which one I took and drank one big gulp..... yuck!

 

[Chriscc123]

Ill put us back on track!.... anyhoo are there any official (government, independent study stuff) that says that stock solution is not toxic....?

BTW this has nothing to do with my storage problem

 

[MattKing]

Ill put us back on track!.... anyhoo are there any official (government, independent study stuff) that says that stock solution is not toxic....?

BTW this has nothing to do with my storage problem

Define toxic.

If you drink any of the commonly used B&W photo-chemicals, they won't be particularly good for you.

If swallowed, some of them might make you very sick, or even kill you.

And others might do no more than taste bad.

They are similar to household cleaning products - both as to toxicity, and handling recommendations.

For most people, if handled reasonably, they will not cause harm.

Some people are susceptible to developing an allergic reaction to some components in some chemicals, so gloves are always a good idea, but many users go decades without using them, without apparent harm.

The silver in used fixer can be bad for pipes and some waste treatment systems, but generally not too bad for people.

Of all the chemicals I use regularly, only one is generally understood to require extra caution - Selenium Toner.

Some of the more esoteric or historic B & W processes may involve more risk - e.g. true daguerreotypes (which involve mercury).

 

[Chriscc123]

i know... but this is a school thing... and the law tends to get involved...

 

[MattKing]

Ten years ago, I expect that you would have been able to locate dozens of school districts and hundreds of schools in California alone that offered darkroom programs. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if there are already in place clear protocols about these issues - either state-wide or in your school district or in nearby school districts.

If I were you, I'd ask some older teachers - some of them might have actually taught in darkrooms, and know whom to ask.

Remember, there is nothing like a school based bureaucracy for creating rules - by the binder full!

 

[Chriscc123]

ya i wish i could but i go to a very very very very small privet school, in fact im probably the only one who knows (remembers) what the hell to even do in the darkroom.... its funny.... im basicly teaching the class, and the teacher... as a student....... go figure

 

[MattKing]

If any of your teachers have contacts in the Arts faculties at the college/university level, they could probably access this sort of information (handling and safety protocols) from them.

 

[Bill Burk]

I have kids in my darkroom all the time. Stock solutions are kept locked behind chicken wire thanks to the urging of a pediatric trauma nurse friend. When the mixed solutions are in the trays I tell the kids what's what: first one is poison, second one is salad dressing and third one is acid. Everything else is water. They get it.

 

[Sirius Glass]

Ill put us back on track!.... anyhoo are there any official (government, independent study stuff) that says that stock solution is not toxic....?

BTW this has nothing to do with my storage problem

I do analog photography because I like using toxic chemicals!

Steve

 

[Chriscc123]

I do analog photography because I like using toxic chemicals!

Steve

so do i.. so do i...

 

[Wade D]

Years ago you could get used 1 gallon brown glass bottles from your local pharmacy for free. I have about 10 or so that were obtained that way. I used to have more but through attrition some have broken. Now all you can get are plastic ones. 2 liter plastic soda bottles work well also. Toxic? I drink Dektol for breakfast! Seriously, though, keep the chemicals away from children and pets.