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Hello APUG from FILM Ferrania (PART 2)

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markjwyatt said:
I read, "100 rolls every day of the week, week after week"...

I presume you mean bulk rolls. What does that translate to in say 35mm x 36 exp. equivalents?
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I believe that the phrase in the update is "cases of 100 rolls every day of the week, week after week"
 
FILM Ferrania said:
I just posted the latest update from the factory:

Dead Link Removed
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Wow, this is great news! I unfortunately missed out on the early P30 sales, so the opportunity to pick some up is exciting. Regarding the air quality, what did it affect in the film? The only thing I can think of is dust scratching the film, and that could very well be the case.
 
markjwyatt said:
I read, "100 rolls every day of the week, week after week"...

I presume you mean bulk rolls. What does that translate to in say 35mm x 36 exp. equivalents?
Click to expand...

Hopefully a bit more than 100 per day. But it will all be single rolls of 36 exposures. And 120. We're determined not to relaunch until we have 35mm AND 120.

Bulk rolls will eventually be added to the product roster, but not until we've increased production significantly.
 
OldReliable said:
Wow, this is great news! I unfortunately missed out on the early P30 sales, so the opportunity to pick some up is exciting. Regarding the air quality, what did it affect in the film? The only thing I can think of is dust scratching the film, and that could very well be the case.
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Yes, much of the waste was due to film being scratched during coating. It really does not take much to ruin a batch - and 99.9% of it never even left the building. This caused a brutal stop-and-fix-and-start cycle that wasted a lot of time - time being an equally important factor in our costs. We finally managed to get many things under control, and produce a decent size batch, only to have a humidity issue that ruined much of it. This was due to leaks in "new" roof that was installed in 2015 - but by that time, the government had agreed to come back and finish the work properly (plus install the new power plant).

The small bit of silver lining is that this (third) "forced holiday" gave our team the space they needed to process everything they learned during Alpha production, and to formulate a clear plan for our return.
 
FILM Ferrania said:
Yes, much of the waste was due to film being scratched during coating. It really does not take much to ruin a batch - and 99.9% of it never even left the building. This caused a brutal stop-and-fix-and-start cycle that wasted a lot of time - time being an equally important factor in our costs. We finally managed to get many things under control, and produce a decent size batch, only to have a humidity issue that ruined much of it. This was due to leaks in "new" roof that was installed in 2015 - but by that time, the government had agreed to come back and finish the work properly (plus install the new power plant).

The small bit of silver lining is that this (third) "forced holiday" gave our team the space they needed to process everything they learned during Alpha production, and to formulate a clear plan for our return.
Click to expand...
I used to train and wrench for bike racers. After a significant repair or overhaul the first ride was done with instructions to ride no harder than 70% until the bike was dialed and trustworthy. That meant a brain-set that said to be prepared to stop about 100 yards at a time. An adjustment in tire pressure...seat height...bar position...brake-lever position..shifting under load needed adjustment.

People think that it is simple; it's only a bike. Yet so much has to be dialed-in for normal use, then for heavy training, then for full-bore racing. Mechanic al failure in a race can cause injury, loss of time, loss of race position, and loss of enjoyment. A racer trains 4 days a week and deserves to compete unimpeded and express their full power over a 2 hour race.

So...Ferrenia, find new ways for your crew to be patient. We have to do the same as future clients. I, for one, believe you will do well.
 
FILM Ferrania said:
Yes, much of the waste was due to film being scratched during coating. It really does not take much to ruin a batch - and 99.9% of it never even left the building. This caused a brutal stop-and-fix-and-start cycle that wasted a lot of time - time being an equally important factor in our costs. We finally managed to get many things under control, and produce a decent size batch, only to have a humidity issue that ruined much of it. This was due to leaks in "new" roof that was installed in 2015 - but by that time, the government had agreed to come back and finish the work properly (plus install the new power plant).

The small bit of silver lining is that this (third) "forced holiday" gave our team the space they needed to process everything they learned during Alpha production, and to formulate a clear plan for our return.
Click to expand...

For all those people just don't understand what the word "Alpha" really means...
 
RattyMouse said:
Manufacturers typically do not charge money for beta products, much less Alpha.
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You haven't seen much commercial software yet, have you ?
 
pbromaghin said:
For all those people just don't understand what the word "Alpha" really means...
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Rudeofus said:
You haven't seen much commercial software yet, have you ?
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Yep.....+1.....thumbs up...."like".

One might also add books, especially educational and academic books, which have been known to be published with a message to the effect that the purchaser should look for errors and will report them to the publisher for the next edition.

It was always made clear that P30 Alpha was offered for testing. Nobody was forced to pay for it. Nobody was hoodwinked into thinking it was a completely finalised, commercial product....as long as they read the announcements. The fact that P30 Alpha is a beautiful film bodes well for the future of Film Ferrania. I will definitely be buying P30 in 120, and 220 if it is released.
 
I don’t understand why some people refuse to see that the project to try and reboot Ferrania Film is not like any normal commercial venture.

It can’t be judged by the same parameters. By any normal business commercial consideration they shouldn’t have attempted what they have. Business doesn’t have a place for heart, for emotion, for nostalgia. It only cares about money.

I’m intrigued by the Ferrania story. The fact that it is out and in the open tells you all you need to know. Ferrania is a labour of love. It’s absolutely not your usual corporation.

Judging them as if they were is churlish. And tiresome.
 
Agulliver said:
Yep.....+1.....thumbs up...."like".

One might also add books, especially educational and academic books, which have been known to be published with a message to the effect that the purchaser should look for errors and will report them to the publisher for the next edition.

It was always made clear that P30 Alpha was offered for testing. Nobody was forced to pay for it. Nobody was hoodwinked into thinking it was a completely finalised, commercial product....as long as they read the announcements. The fact that P30 Alpha is a beautiful film bodes well for the future of Film Ferrania. I will definitely be buying P30 in 120, and 220 if it is released.
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Nonsense. Academic tex books go through heavy review stages. I worked for a professor who was part of a review team and his workload was awesome, reviewing draft after draft after draft. The result of his work was hardly "Alpha". He was one of at least 25 reviewers for the same text.
 
RattyMouse said:
Nonsense. Academic tex books go through heavy review stages. I worked for a professor who was part of a review team and his workload was awesome, reviewing draft after draft after draft. The result of his work was hardly "Alpha". He was one of at least 25 reviewers for the same text.
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Oh complete tosh. Most of my Physics, Mathematics and Electronics textbooks have notes to the effect that the author welcomes mistakes being reported to the publisher. I work in secondary education, have done for 19 years, and the school textbooks are often similarly expected to have mistakes with teachers and students encouraged to report them.

Of course they go through editing, proof-reading....and yet mistakes still get through especially in new or first editions of a book. I am sure that Film Ferrania tested P30 Alpha before manufacturing the batch that they sold. Indeed their website chronicled the initial testing by Nicola, I believe.

Additionally, I was not saying that academic books are alpha products.....I said "one might also add books"....it's another example of an industry where it is accepted that imperfect products will be released and the users are encouraged to report the imperfections by the manufacturer/publisher.
 
C'mon, I know non-chalant rose tinted happiness might not be the attitude towards an imperfect venture, but there's no need for so much vitriol.

We have what we have and that's it. If you kill Fuji, Kodak, Ilford and Ferrania we'll have no more complaints about overdue projects and we can bitch all we want about a discontinued stock... Go, take the machinery, make it yourself AND, being at that, do it better that they would do!

Thank the state of the factory not being totally plundered despite abandonment, and the couple crazy italians that recovered it and made it a project.
 
Rudeofus said:
You haven't seen much commercial software yet, have you ?
Click to expand...

flavio81 said:
Excellent reply.
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If Google made film, they would offer the beta product for free, but would make you agree to an EULA where you would be forced to use it to photograph the sacrifice of your first child, and all the rights to the images would have to be given to Google.
 
Agulliver said:
Oh complete tosh. Most of my Physics, Mathematics and Electronics textbooks have notes to the effect that the author welcomes mistakes being reported to the publisher. I work in secondary education, have done for 19 years, and the school textbooks are often similarly expected to have mistakes with teachers and students encouraged to report them.

Of course they go through editing, proof-reading....and yet mistakes still get through especially in new or first editions of a book. I am sure that Film Ferrania tested P30 Alpha before manufacturing the batch that they sold. Indeed their website chronicled the initial testing by Nicola, I believe.

Additionally, I was not saying that academic books are alpha products.....I said "one might also add books"....it's another example of an industry where it is accepted that imperfect products will be released and the users are encouraged to report the imperfections by the manufacturer/publisher.
Click to expand...

As you said, text books are not an alpha product. My point exactly. Thank you.
 
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