Hello APUG from FILM Ferrania (PART 2)

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Diapositivo

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A forum is a place where we exchange ideas, and different opinions are always welcome.

This thread, though, is a bit different from an ordinary Photrio thread. We complain that firms don't have a direct communication channels with the photographic community, a place where questions can be asked, requests can be formulated, the pulse of the movement can be felt. This thread is a rare case where this can happen, where a firm interacts with the photographic community in a forum, something e.g. that Kodak never did nor it is doing.

I value this kind of interaction.

So I don't see this thread as another casual discussions over the merits of, let's say, rangefinder or reflex cameras. I see it as a communication channel with a firm.
The firm in this case is Ferrania, but in other cases could be Ilford, Kodak, Leica, Hasselblad etc.
I consider especially important, for the success of this kind of communication, that ideas are expressed politely and without making the same point a thousand times, lest the communication channel is justifiably severed.

Constant and pregiudicial negativity, which is always out of place in a forum, is in this thread especially out of place, because this is a place where we can interact about this endeavour, not a place where we bash at the endeavour. This thread was started by Ferrania and is titled "Hallo APUG from FILM Ferrania".

The bashing, if really one feels like bashing, should be made in another thread, which can be opened by anybody, e.g. "What I don't like about Ferraniafilm", or "Why I feel betrayed by the Kickstarter fundraising by Ferraniafilm" etc. a thread which is created by Alessandro Serao or Berri or anybody else who feels like opening it, and where people can discuss the matter without hijacking this thread, which should not be closed because it's a valued communication channel between APUG / Photrio photographers and a firm active in the photographic space.

I think in this specific thread it is especially important to clean one's shoes on the doormat before entering and to express ideas with politeness and objectivity, instead of trying to force the firm/OP into sterile polemics.

Dissent is always welcome but plain insults and repeated one-sentence rants don't make a debate.
 
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DaveTheWalker

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I think in this specific thread it is especially important to clean one's shoes on the doormat before entering and to express ideas with politeness and objectivity, instead of trying to force the firm/OP into sterile polemics.

I don't have anything to add - I just wanted to show my support for Diapositivo's point of view. I agree with all he has said and would like to see this thread remain open...and civil!
 

warden

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You guys sound suspiciously like adults. Thank you.

I think in this specific thread it is especially important to clean one's shoes on the doormat before entering and to express ideas with politeness and objectivity, instead of trying to force the firm/OP into sterile polemics.

Dissent is always welcome but plain insults and repeated one-sentence rants don't make a debate.

On the other hand Alessandro does say himself that he doesn´t give a f about the circumstances and that he does not want to use P30, so why going on about that? This ain´t facebook or whatever where you have to put out something every 5 minutes just to hold all your followers.
 
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cmcphee

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Being new around here and having just shot my first roll of P30 - which I loved - I thought I'd drop into this conversation & see what was happening. Ooh boy, I haven't gone back through all 154 pages, but I think I get the gist! Anyway, just want to add my 2c and say I have every respect for what FF are trying to do. It's a complicated process for a full-size company, never mind half a dozen people and while things obviously haven't gone entirely to plan (but when do they ever do that) this company puts itself out there and tells people what's happening.

There are one or two on every type of forum that have their own hobbyhorses and just won't get off them, whatever the feedback. But let's not lose sight of the fact that FF have remastered a classic film in P30, one that some of us had never experienced before. I have 2 rolls of P30 left; I can't wait for the 120 and more 35mm, but even if they gave up and shut down tomorrow I would still be so very appreciative of what they've done.
 

wlodekmj

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A forum is a place where we exchange ideas, and different opinions are always welcome.

This thread, though, is a bit different from an ordinary Photrio thread. We complain that firms don't have a direct communication channels with the photographic community, a place where questions can be asked, requests can be formulated, the pulse of the movement can be felt. This thread is a rare case where this can happen, where a firm interacts with the photographic community in a forum, something e.g. that Kodak never did nor it is doing.

Thank you for your positive remarks! Yes, this thread is different because it is an "Industry News" thread, as we can see at the bottom of every page.So people come here to look for news from Ferrania, and to discuss the news or the lack of it. If it were to be closed, the same people would want a new thread. IMHO unpleasant comments in Italian do not help.
 
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eddie

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I root for everyone who tries to introduce new products for analog photography. Whether it’s a camera, a film, or even if it’s not a product I’d have a use for, I’m thankful there are people who still think we’re worthy of attention. If projected launch dates are missed so be it. I think we should all be thankful that Ferrania chooses to communicate with this site.
 

cmacd123

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Interesting, every couple of days I have been checking the film ferrannia page to see if more P30 is available - Film is still listed as "Sold Out" but then noticed their is a tab I did not notice before at the top of the page just to the left of "contact" and the Right of FAQ.

Probably off limits to most of us due to SEC and other rules here in North America unless you are a film loving multi Millionaire. (I know I don't meet the rules as a "qualified Investor" for anything.) but for those who are might be worth having a chat.
 

Ces1um

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Interesting, every couple of days I have been checking the film ferrannia page to see if more P30 is available - Film is still listed as "Sold Out" but then noticed their is a tab I did not notice before at the top of the page just to the left of "contact" and the Right of FAQ.
Probably off limits to most of us due to SEC and other rules here in North America unless you are a film loving multi Millionaire. (I know I don't meet the rules as a "qualified Investor" for anything.) but for those who are might be worth having a chat.
They're looking for both major and minor investors. Not sure how much money a "minor" investor would need to put in to be considered an investor but it seems like a good strategy for them to get additional cash infusions. I do find myself curious what their minimum investment amount would be.
 

FILM Ferrania

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Interesting, every couple of days I have been checking the film ferrannia page to see if more P30 is available - Film is still listed as "Sold Out" but then noticed their is a tab I did not notice before at the top of the page just to the left of "contact" and the Right of FAQ.

Probably off limits to most of us due to SEC and other rules here in North America unless you are a film loving multi Millionaire. (I know I don't meet the rules as a "qualified Investor" for anything.) but for those who are might be worth having a chat.

Thanks for noticing! (The Invest link, not so much the out-of-stock P30).

The page is a simple call for those who are interested, and it's totally ok to take investments from anywhere in the world. There are rules, to be sure, but not the same rules as investing in a US company.

All of that will of course be addressed individually with the potential investor, depending on their location.

As for the distinction between "major" and "minor" - that is also evaluated on a case by case basis. Some of the interest we've had already is "minor" - but in the grand scheme of things, our total investment needs are so modest that many traditional investors wouldn't give us a second look.

Regarding P30, all I can say at the moment is that the government is back on the scene to fix things left undone (or broken) in 2016. We are preparing a proper update.
 

FILM Ferrania

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Oh, and thanks to all who expressed their support in the last batch of messages.

When I mentioned the phrase "tilting at windmills" - I was purposely evoking the idea that we are an imaginary enemy. Not only because we are no one's enemy, but because our company is so tiny, fluid and unformed that it is practically imaginary. Or at least it exists in the minds or our team more than it does in the real world...

As Nicola likes to say, "What to do?" We can only continue willing our company into being until the day that we are more real than imaginary.

The dark truth is that we are by no means alone. Every small film brand in the world is facing very real, very devastating issues - while putting on a smile for the public. The industry today is both the most hopeful it's been in years, and, ironically, the most fragile.
 

Europan

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Isn’t it obvious that and how film manufacturers can obviate each others. Kodak makes panchromatic, rather higher speed movie stocks and the world’s best colour films. Ilford produce famous black-and-white films but not in ciné formats (which I regret). Foma Bohemia makes the only true mixed emulsions panchromatic reversal film on colourless TAC. Film Ferrania makes an old-fashioned pancromatico negative film at the moment. Adox has different nice films for stills photography plus one in Super-8. FilmoTec makes the most modern Orwo brand movie films, they have a positive print stock with antihalo protection, singular. Gigabit film disappeared unfortunately. There are more products around such as Polypan F, those of China Lucky, Shanghai, Bergger, Maco. Agfa makes several emulsions that only need to be converted to popular formats. I think Ferrania should slit one little jumbo of P30 to 16 and dust off a 16mm perforator. I’d buy right away. Imagine the logo on screens in the end credits.
 

cmacd123

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I think Ferrania should slit one little jumbo of P30 to 16 and dust off a 16mm perforator. I’d buy right away. Imagine the logo on screens in the end credits.

Would be fun to have, I would guess that the Labs that still process movie film in black and white would need to know how it differs from the times that they have for 7222, I certainly have an empty Filmo 70 that would love to shoot a roll of Felini's favourite.
 
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... I think Ferrania should slit one little jumbo of P30 to 16 and dust off a 16mm perforator. I’d buy right away. Imagine the logo on screens in the end credits.

Hm... just theorizing on this but if Ferrania could be sure that there is enough demand, if they had the funds and if they could find a partner, they just could send a little jumbo to somebody who allready does 16mm-converting, who allready has the cans, reels etc. - and by that could put out a small batch of P30 in 16mm.
A lot of "ifs" but not impossible (i hope).

Btw i found the short video of some guys having testet reversal developement of P30 when P30 was given a few testers before P30 was put out as "alpha":



I guess they could tell them labs to process P30 as reversal.
 
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Well, yes, but as it would be a bonus for P30 also being reversal processable - not everyone having the money for a negative+print - it would be good to know how to do it. And as P30 is a very silver-rich emulsion it should be good in reversal, as silver-rich emulsions are said to be good in reversal processing.
 

faberryman

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And as P30 is a very silver-rich emulsion it should be good in reversal, as silver-rich emulsions are said to be good in reversal processing.
Is it really silver rich? I've never seen any technical information on it, or on any of the films from Ilford, Kodak, Foma, etc. such that silver content could be compared.
 
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Prest_400

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Hm... just theorizing on this but if Ferrania could be sure that there is enough demand, if they had the funds and if they could find a partner, they just could send a little jumbo to somebody who allready does 16mm-converting, who allready has the cans, reels etc. - and by that could put out a small batch of P30 in 16mm.
A lot of "ifs" but not impossible (i hope).
ADOX is rather comparable to Ferrania, they are rearranging their manufacturing capability by building a new factory. They do mention that there were some difficulties with partners in recent times and some specific processes couldn't be outsourced anymore. Good to know and give some perspective.

From their site:
We are currently unable to supply CHS 100 II because we need to tranfer the coating of the film to our new production machine in Switzerland.
Actually we did not plan to do this in such a timely manner but our last coating partner decided not to be available to ADOX anymore.
 

twelvetone12

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I've always wondered who made CHS 100 II and why they bailed out, and it does not surprise me that the bottleneck in Ferrania's workflow is their finishing partner. The film business seems not a very friendly one.
 
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Is it really silver rich? I've never seen any technical information on it, or on any of the films from Ilford, Kodak, Foma, etc. such that silver content could be compared.

It is. Have a look at post #1220:

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/hello-apug-from-film-ferrania-part-2.128272/page-49

and a look at post #1235 and #1246 here:

https://www.photrio.com/forum/threads/hello-apug-from-film-ferrania-part-2.128272/page-50

P30 has about 5g silver per square meter, which is high for today standarts because as PE points out silver content nowadays is around 3g/squ.m. (if my calculation squ.meter to squ. ft is correct).
 

FILM Ferrania

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they are friendly enough I believe, but no one wants to get into a situation where they depend on a competitor.

And yet that is exactly where almost everyone is today (except Fuji) - depending on the services of competitors, or being forced to use common suppliers who are overwhelmed.

We choose to see not competition, but "Mutually Assured Success" - to twist the classic cold war phrase. :wink:

This may at first appear naive and idealistic, but from our perspective, competition is something to be embraced and signals to customers a healthy industry.

The healthier the industry, the more we all benefit. Plain and simple.
 

FILM Ferrania

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I've always wondered who made CHS 100 II and why they bailed out, and it does not surprise me that the bottleneck in Ferrania's workflow is their finishing partner. The film business seems not a very friendly one.

No one wants to really talk publicly about the "unfriendly" parts of the industry, because you may step on toes that you need to dance with at some point... I applaud Mirko for saying as much as he did say!

I would personally LOVE to lay it all out - the overall state of the industry and it's interconnectedness. And I would call out those "unfriendly" parts by name.

I'm the kind of person who believes that occasionally stepping on toes can prevent a broken leg.

Alas, I work for a film company - one that is struggling day by day to BE a proper company - and so it would only read as sour grapes...

Plus, I'm just me and what the hell do I know compared to people who have been in the industry for 20, 30, 40 years...
 

Photo Engineer

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And yet that is exactly where almost everyone is today (except Fuji) - depending on the services of competitors, or being forced to use common suppliers who are overwhelmed.

We choose to see not competition, but "Mutually Assured Success" - to twist the classic cold war phrase. :wink:

This may at first appear naive and idealistic, but from our perspective, competition is something to be embraced and signals to customers a healthy industry.

The healthier the industry, the more we all benefit. Plain and simple.

Fuji is dependent on some outside sources but not competitors. The same is true of Kodak.

PE
 
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