Hello APUG from FILM Ferrania (PART 2)

[Harry Callahan]

PS: Someone having too much free time and too much P30 could run some test doing cont. agit. vs. semi-stand and pre-soak vs. no pre-soak (and pre-soak+cont. agit. vs. no-presoak+cont. agit. and no pre-soak+semi-stand vs. ... etc.) . By that the potential of P30 might be explored even more, because cont. agit. and pre-soak also may effect speed of the film and there were some having problems to reach box-speed of P30.

 

[Diapositivo]

I think most people consider ISO and ASA to be equivalent. I know for sure that Marco does not, but he appreciates the serendipity with the original product's rated speed.

I am not sure they are not strictly the same. I remember a film in the Eighties or early Nineties, maybe Kodak Vericolor III but my memory might fail, that had a different rating in the two standards by 1/3 of a stop. Or maybe it was not rated in ISO but in ASA and DIN, and the ASA - DIN didn't "match" the usual way. So maybe ASA and ISO always give the same figure.
In any case, most of our cameras have ASA - DIN marked on the film speed dial, so ASA it's easier

 

[twelvetone12]

PS: Someone having too much free time and too much P30 could run some test doing cont. agit. vs. semi-stand and pre-soak vs. no pre-soak (and pre-soak+cont. agit. vs. no-presoak+cont. agit. and no pre-soak+semi-stand vs. ... etc.) . By that the potential of P30 might be explored even more, because cont. agit. and pre-soak also may effect speed of the film and there were some having problems to reach box-speed of P30.

Scott Micciche did some experiments, you can check the p30 thread for that.

EDIT: underline does not go away!

 

[trendland]

Ok.
Don´t get me wrong but i never considered "trick" to be a nostalgic/oldfashioned word. Is there a new word for "trick" around today? Just asking.



I didn´t intend to start a technical discussion about what is new or what is a trick and what isn´t, i just wanted to point out to jogr that:
a) There are films which were intended for continuous agitation only, which applies to P30
b) that UN54 should differ a lot from P30 so it should be hard to conclude that every cinemafilm does benefit from D96/D76 and cont. agi.
c) its even possible that UN54 wasn´t intended as a cinemafilm at all

But as were allready discussing, P30 lacks full red sensitivity and has old-style-grain and probably old-style-layer-thickness. Whether the gelatin is as special hardened as it is with UN54 probably is questionable. If one now does call this tricks or different shouldn´t matter a lot, fact is that UN54 differs a lot from P30 - which is what i wanted to make clear.
Dünnschicht-Film (with an -Ü- not an -U-) was revolutionary in so far that the layer(s) of gelatin holding the silver were made thinner. I think this invention was made in the 50s or even 40s by a german manufacturer, maybe Adox, maybe Efke, i don´t know for sure.
One of the effects were more visible grain, but also more sharpness, i can´t explain why, but after this invention was made a lot of emulsions were desinged in that way, which should be one thing representing a new-style-emulsion. Apart from that fewer silver is needed and by that the film can be produced more economical.
This indicates that P30 still is old-style as it uses a lot of silver compared to other emulsions, which also might explain the rather high price of P30.


I also am not sure but if the layer(s) of gelatin holding the silver are rather thick, its harder for the developer to get deep into the layer(s) and do its job. This could be the reason why P30 does benefit from cont. agit. because its needed to get the developer deep into the layer(s). On a "modern" film with thinner layer(s) there might be not as much agitation needed - which by the way also could explain the pre-soak vs. no-pre-soak-debate, as a presoak might help a thick layer to swell and by that being able to take up the developer better than without pre-soak.
Now if its like that this could explain why the "myth" of pre-soak is still around, though a lot of people have come to the conclusion that pre-soak has no effect on developement. If its like i assume, pre-soak was helping old-style-emlusions but isn´t helping on new-style-emulsions - and this could be why there is the idea of pre-soak at all, but a lot of users not experiencing a difference with pre-soak, because they use modern films.

And by that, way of developement needed very well could be defined by design of the emulsion.

About Kodachrome: Kodachrome had a hell of layers, i also don´t know exactly, but it was like 30 or 40 different layers - and just because of that they had to make the layers very thin as the film would have become way too thick otherwise. An E6-film does around 16 layers i think.

Thanks - the expertise to sharpness of Kodachrome (outside/in addition of its lower speed advantage) comes from a guy whow wasn't a real expert but I believed since years to that.
(the less thickness of Kodachrome layers)
May be I have to think about ?

with regards

 

[trendland]

PS: Someone having too much free time and too much P30 could run some test doing cont. agit. vs. semi-stand and pre-soak vs. no pre-soak (and pre-soak+cont. agit. vs. no-presoak+cont. agit. and no pre-soak+semi-stand vs. ... etc.) . By that the potential of P30 might be explored even more, because cont. agit. and pre-soak also may effect speed of the film and there were some having problems to reach box-speed of P30.

The last extensive test with a film (Rollei R3) cost more than 40 x R3 in 120....
I should have fully recovered after some years - but it is not so bad (from the idea) some of you will have extensive tests with P30........

with regards

 

[Photo Engineer]

Gevaert was still independent in 1965 when I conducted a study of their color paper vs Agfa and Kodak. The silver wars here started in the '70s due to the Hunt brothers.

Long sensitization is a choice of chemicals today, as all spectral sensitization is known and the chemicals are available. All work on all emulsions! Any emulsion in any film can become a motion picture film if coated with the right antistatic layer and if the ISO value is adjusted. And, with modern coating methods, even thick layers is more of a choice, as modern sensitizing methods are certainly known at Ferrania and indeed all companies that make film.

PE

 

[trendland]

Gevaert was still independent in 1965 when I conducted a study of their color paper vs Agfa and Kodak. The silver wars here started in the '70s due to the Hunt brothers.

Long sensitization is a choice of chemicals today, as all spectral sensitization is known and the chemicals are available. All work on all emulsions! Any emulsion in any film can become a motion picture film if coated with the right antistatic layer and if the ISO value is adjusted. And, with modern coating methods, even thick layers is more of a choice, as modern sensitizing methods are certainly known at Ferrania and indeed all companies that make film.

PE

If the new ektachrome will take a while -
we may come back to the Hunt brothers and the silver price.
Because it could be the next "Full evening theme"

with regards...Hunt brothers is a name
that sounds like "jesse james gang"


PS : I can't remember if they came into prisn or if they are still sitting into prisn.

 

[Don Harpold]

Hello All
I received my 10 rolls today
I was order # 89

Thank You Dave

 

[Harry Callahan]

Scott Micciche did some experiments, you can check the p30 thread for that.

EDIT: underline does not go away!

Thank you, i skipped through the thread but it seems like he didn´t do tests about pre-soak. On the other hand im just guessing on whether pre-soak would have any effect.

Thanks - the expertise to sharpness of Kodachrome (outside/in addition of its lower speed advantage) comes from a guy whow wasn't a real expert but I believed since years to that.
(the less thickness of Kodachrome layers)
May be I have to think about ?

with regards

I know that Kodachrome was a very sharp film - i only wanted to say that they had to make the layers very thin because the film wouldn´t have worked otherwise. But the sharpness of Kodachrome may well have benefited from those thin layers.

 

[Photo Engineer]

Kodachrome had a relief image! That helped sharpness.

PE

 

[Minoltafan2904]

Yup, i was pretty intrigued when i first saw Kodachromes with the relief image.

 

[cmacd123]

Just to say hello. I Loaded a roll of P30 into one of my Canon A-1 Cameras today. it was out of the ten rolls from the new shop. May have to savour shooting this one. The adhesive on the label seems fairly strong, not sure if I will be able to peel it in one piece to decorate my Darkroom when the time comes.

US/canada shop seems to be out of film. I wonder if they will let the European market have some before we get some more here?

 

[FILM Ferrania]

For those who wait with bated breath for colour Ferrania film, you will enjoy this - seen today at an "antiques mall" in Fort Langley, BC Canada.
It is about a meter in length.
For $275.00 CDN (plus taxes??) it can be yours.
(apologies for the crummy cel phone photo)
View attachment 194502

That's a lovely sign! We have one in the factory.

 

[FILM Ferrania]

Just to say hello. I Loaded a roll of P30 into one of my Canon A-1 Cameras today. it was out of the ten rolls from the new shop. May have to savour shooting this one. The adhesive on the label seems fairly strong, not sure if I will be able to peel it in one piece to decorate my Darkroom when the time comes.

US/canada shop seems to be out of film. I wonder if they will let the European market have some before we get some more here?

Yes, as we say on our website, we will stagger the opening of the shops due to the production bottleneck.

The next batch will be going on sale in Europe shortly. Our friends at macodirect.de are going to handle sales for us since building an EU shop is simply to complicated for us (which means me) right now.

The batch after that will come to the US.

The batch after that will go to a partner in Hong Kong (hopefully) for sales in Asia.

Beyond that, we will decide each batch on a case-by-case basis until we can open the bottleneck sufficiently to keep the film flowing to all three zones.

 

[FILM Ferrania]

Hello All
I received my 10 rolls today
I was order # 89

Thank You Dave

I'll accept your thanks Don, but the real thanks go to the team in Italy!!

 

[Don Harpold]

Hello
I have added another roll to an album on Flickr
These were shot with the Canon P 50mm 1.8 Canon lens PyrocatHD 15mins half at 80 and half at 40iso

https://flic.kr/s/aHsmfESMDR

 

[KPA40]

The P30 is now available from Macodirect in Germany. I think Macodirect is the european shop for now. The order is limitted to 20 pcs. I just placed my order of ten Films.

https://www.macodirect.de/en/film/black-white-films/6054/ferrania-p30-alpha-35mm-36-exposures

Olaf

 

[bstark]

I just ordered a couple of rolls of P30 from macodirect. Any bets on how quickly it will sell out? If you are in Europe an want some, you should probably hurry up.

 

[FILM Ferrania]

I just ordered a couple of rolls of P30 from macodirect. Any bets on how quickly it will sell out? If you are in Europe an want some, you should probably hurry up.

Agreed!

 

[twelvetone12]

IT IS ALREADY OUT OF STOCK! I did not even make it home from work :-(

 

[Trask]

Hello
I have added another roll to an album on Flickr
These were shot with the Canon P 50mm 1.8 Canon lens PyrocatHD 15mins half at 80 and half at 40iso

https://flic.kr/s/aHsmfESMDR

Nice examples — shows what’s possible with PyrocatHD. I’m interested because I sometimes use 510-Pyro, and I’ve got three rolls of P30 to test out. I recognized the shots around Grass Valley/Nevada City, as I have family up that way.

 

[Old-N-Feeble]

Hello
I have added another roll to an album on Flickr
These were shot with the Canon P 50mm 1.8 Canon lens PyrocatHD 15mins half at 80 and half at 40iso

https://flic.kr/s/aHsmfESMDR

Overall, I much prefer the images shot at 40 ISO.

 

[dutchsteammachine]

Agreed!

So will the EU shop be hosted by macrodirect from now on?

How long has it been for sale in the EU? for one day? since 19 feb?

Is everything out of stock already?

 

[FilmCurlCom]

On the Maco site it says "No stock. Expected date of delivery 20 February 2018", which would be tomorrow.
So maybe check back then, keeping in mind some possible time shifts (I assume they'd put in new stock on their site during the German working hours?)

 

[twelvetone12]

It was in stock today at 5! That was fast!