Hello APUG from FILM Ferrania (PART 2)

[RattyMouse]

I wonder when the photography media will pick up on the fact that it appears that Ferrania's efforts have now failed.

 

[Diapositivo]

Their last update on the FAQs was made on October 20th.
My hopes regarding them are intact.
Finem lauda

 

[macfred]

Finem lauda

Prope finem, I guess ...

 

[BAC1967]

Dave has said before that silence means they are hard at work, let's hope that's the case right now. I'm going to be optimistic and root for them to be successful, I'm in desperate need for more color reversal for my 8mm and Super 8 cameras.

 

[Minoltafan2904]

Let's not be pessimistic, they've been through serous trouble when they were starting out and they pulled through

 

[RattyMouse]

Let's not be pessimistic, they've been through serous trouble when they were starting out and they pulled through

Wild speculation is pretty normal in the absence of information. A shame that all we have is silence.

 

[cmacd123]

Wild speculation is pretty normal in the absence of information. A shame that all we have is silence.

but if Dave said, " we have nothing new to report" some here would accuse him of holding out on us.

the B&W 80film has potential. But I am really feeling a hole that could be filled by the 100 ISO E6 film on 16mmX100 ft (30.5M) Daylight Spools.

 

[ChristopherCoy]

I'm glad I found this, and see that Ferrania is responding. I backed the project but haven't heard anything about the first 500 numbered rolls reward. What the status?

Ferrania, if you feel inclined, you can email me directly at coyimages (@) gmail.com

 

[cmacd123]

I backed the project but haven't heard anything about the first 500 numbered rolls reward.

they have asked you to use the contact address on their web site for such issues. They do have all the information on backer perks. backers did get a very modest discount on the limited release of the P30 B&W film.

 

[FILM Ferrania]

Wild speculation is pretty normal in the absence of information. A shame that all we have is silence.

Normal doesn't mean necessary. Or productive. Or relevant.

Yes, it's such a shame that we are busy trying to figure out how to make enough film to meet demand that we don't have time to post useless updates that no one reads.

 

[FILM Ferrania]

I'm glad I found this, and see that Ferrania is responding. I backed the project but haven't heard anything about the first 500 numbered rolls reward. What the status?

Ferrania, if you feel inclined, you can email me directly at coyimages (@) gmail.com

Hi Christopher - seems maybe you haven't seen any of our updates? The status is that we're not yet capable of producing the rewards, but we're getting there - very slowly. (Don't pay attention to the ones who say we've given up or failed because that's far from the truth).

All Kickstarter updates are archived here: Dead Link Removed - and also on our website, for the most part.

If you have questions not answered in the updates, please email help@filmferrania.it and I'll answer you directly there.

 

[MattKing]

Normal doesn't mean necessary. Or productive. Or relevant.

Yes, it's such a shame that we are busy trying to figure out how to make enough film to meet demand that we don't have time to post useless updates that no one reads.

Dave:
You need an automated "bot" that posts every morning something like:
"Good morning everyone - happy Thursday, November 9, 2017. We are working hard in the background and slowly making progress, but otherwise have nothing new to report".
Naturally, it would need to automatically update the day and date.
Wishing you good luck and great results.

 

[FILM Ferrania]

but if Dave said, " we have nothing new to report" some here would accuse him of holding out on us.

the B&W 80film has potential. But I am really feeling a hole that could be filled by the 100 ISO E6 film on 16mmX100 ft (30.5M) Daylight Spools.

We kind of have TOO MUCH to report, but also very little that forms a coherent narrative... And as mentioned previously, not an effective use of our time.

I've been trying to get Nicola to make a video update, since people watch our videos but rarely read our text updates. But to be frank, nothing we do is simple and so trying to simplify things to make short updates has proven itself to be against our own best interest.

You are most certainly correct that a 100 ISO E6 film is needed - for cinema and still both - and we're getting there. First, we need to be able to make enough P30 to meet demand, which is much higher than we ever expected. And we need to do it, of course, without losing money - because we don't really have any money to lose.

 

[FILM Ferrania]

Dave:
You need an automated "bot" that posts every morning something like:
"Good morning everyone - happy Thursday, November 9, 2017. We are working hard in the background and slowly making progress, but otherwise have nothing new to report".
Naturally, it would need to automatically update the day and date.
Wishing you good luck and great results.

Can you make me such a bot?! My programming skills stop at HTML and CSS...

(Of course, someone would then probably accuse us of using a bot instead of employing a person...)

 

[Ces1um]

First, we need to be able to make enough P30 to meet demand, which is much higher than we ever expected. And we need to do it, of course, without losing money - because we don't really have any money to lose.

So then the issues left with P30 are just production volume and not scratches/best practices/etc...?

 

[FILM Ferrania]

I'm glad I found this, and see that Ferrania is responding. I backed the project but haven't heard anything about the first 500 numbered rolls reward. What the status?

they have asked you to use the contact address on their web site for such issues. They do have all the information on backer perks. backers did get a very modest discount on the limited release of the P30 B&W film.

The discount was a one-time offer just before the pre-sale in March. Any Backer with an unused coupon will be able to use it - but we aren't issuing new coupons...

When we are able to increase the capacity of finished products to a viable level, we will re-open the exchange for Backers who are just tired of waiting, or who want P30 instead.

We've also reorganized the website a bit and now all Kickstarter-related stuff has its own section: Dead Link Removed

 

[FILM Ferrania]

So then the issues left with P30 are just production volume and not scratches/best practices/etc...?

At this point, basically, yes. We must increase our finished output and our current partner simply cannot meet these needs. So our founders have focused their attention on getting our own converting/finishing lines out of storage and into action.

Scratches have never been a widespread issue - less than 0.1% of rolls released as best we can figure. These scratches primarily happened during the finishing process, although there were some filtration issues on the coater that have been fixed.

The Best Practices document is going to be changed very soon. We've had some time now to work with a few people to dial-in the right developers and techniques for P30. The list of recommended developers is going to get a lot smaller, but the techniques far more reliable.

I'm currently working with a few people to get some data on reciprocity failure - not in terms of scientific charts but solid "anecdotal" stuff. We also have some info now about reversal processing. And I've been in contact with some more labs (although lab processing is going to take a long time to "fix" because too many use XTOL - perhaps the worst possible developer for P30 film)

I just need to finish a few tests, collect everything and condense it into something useful for everyone.

 

[faberryman]

Why this "allergic reaction" to publishing scientific data in the best practice pdf? I mean, Kodak, Fuji, Foma, Orwo, Agfa etc... has these data published, virtually them all... Why not Ferrania?
Data include charts as: relative spectral sensitivity, characteristic curve, modulation transfer fuction, development curves etc...
Is that because Ferrania hasn't the right equipment to do these tests?

You can't promote a religion based on facts?

 

[macfred]

You can't promote a religion based on facts?

Good one !

 

[FILM Ferrania]

Why this "allergic reaction" to publishing scientific data in the best practice pdf? I mean, Kodak, Fuji, Foma, Orwo, Agfa etc... has these data published, virtually them all... Why not Ferrania?
Data include charts as: relative spectral sensitivity, characteristic curve, modulation transfer fuction, development curves etc...
Is that because Ferrania hasn't the right equipment to do these tests?

It's not an allergic reaction. And thank you for including us in such venerable company, but it's not really an apt comparison.

Once again, our team of 5 people (plus 1 founder) is currently optimized for making film - period. Our product specialist does testing to ensure the film will work, and to ensure batch-to-batch consistency - but she also has to do a lot of other jobs, just like everyone, and doing the kind of testing that yields scientific data charts is simply not possible.

We have the former Ferrania company's entire testing department - all of the equipment, including two electron microscopes, aging cabinets and even the mannequins and fake fruit bowl they used for test shots. But it will be quite some time before we are able to invest the necessary capital to refurbish all of the equipment and hire the necessary staff for this department.

 

[MattKing]

And I've been in contact with some more labs (although lab processing is going to take a long time to "fix" because too many use XTOL - perhaps the worst possible developer for P30 film)

If there is anyone out there who still doesn't believe that P30 is actually a motion picture stock being re-purposed, this alone should serve as definitive proof!
XTol is superb for still films, but probably doesn't build contrast in any way that would be suitable for a motion picture film originally designed to be printed on to film rather than paper.
That being said, I hope Ferrania is successful with all their offerings.

 

[railwayman3]

Then a question pops up: why Ferrania decided to resurrect a cine film instead a still one?

Wasn't P30 sold as a still film back in the day ?

 

[Truzi]

Then a question pops up: why Ferrania decided to resurrect a cine film instead a still one?

I think the impetus was originally to offer re-branded 8mm movie film, and the project morphed into restarting the factory as Film Ferrania. The P30 was originally just to test the manufacturing process, and they decided to sell it.

 

[fdonadio]

Then a question pops up: why Ferrania decided to resurrect a cine film instead a still one?

Ferrania explicitly said they are committed to cine film since day one, I believe.

They were supposed to be the only ones offering E-6 film in Super-8, if it wasn’t for Kodak resurrecting Ektachrome and the huge series of problems Ferrania faced for the last years. Save has said multiple times that Super-8 and 16mm are among the first formats to be offered, along with 35mm and 120 still formats.

It feels natural, at least for me, that they chose to offer a motion picture emulsion.

 

[fdonadio]

Where I said “Save”, I mean “Dave”.